Whatever is Truly Christian
As those of you who have read ID for a while know, we periodically get mystery visits from commenters who drop in to accuse me of importing categories, ideas, or practices from my Protestant past and in so doing, distorting the faith. Some of these commenters have made it clear that they don’t consider Protestants to be real Christians and that we have nothing at all to learn from them.
There was a similar conversation over at Dr. Philip Blosser’s blog last fall in which a commenter was asserting that Peter Kreeft, Cardinal Avery Dulles, and Louis Boyer were all converts whose ecclesiology showed the contaminating influence of their Protestant pasts.
At which point Dr. Blosser, a champion of the Traditional Mass, asked a most pertinent question:
“Let’s get to the point: Here’s a Catholic teaching and tradition. I would like you to comment on it. It says:
“… Catholics must gladly acknowledge and esteem the truly Christian endowments from our common heritage which are to be found among our separated brethren. It is right and salutary to recognize the riches of Christ and virtuous works in the lives of others who are bearing witness to Christ, sometimes even to the shedding of their blood. For God is always wonderful in His works and worthy of all praise.”
But wait. That’s not all:
“Nor should we forget that anything wrought by the grace of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of our separated brethren can be a help to our own edification. Whatever is truly Christian is never contrary to what genuinely belongs to the faith; indeed, it can always bring a deeper realization of the mystery of Christ and the Church.”
Decree on Ecumenism (Unitatis Redintegratio) (1964), I, 4.
Dr. Blosser's question:
What do you think Mother Church is teaching us here? Which “truly Christian endowments” and “riches of Christ and virtuous works” among our separated brethren do you think could be described as “genuinely [belonging] to the faith,” “wrought by the grace of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of our separated brethren” and, moreover, could be considered as “a help to our own edification” as Catholics, bringing us to “a deeper realization of the mystery of Christ and the Church?”
Dr. Blosser notes: “first, that the Decree is not even discussing Catholic converts here, but non-Catholic Christians; and, second, that the Decree is not stating merely that certain endowments and works of non-Catholic Christians are compatible with Catholic teaching or belong to “our common heritage, but that they may serve to edify Catholics.
As Dr. Blosser added: “Your comments, please.”
And I will add: lets keep to the topic. What about your experience of non-Catholic Christians has inspired you, challenged you, edified you, or has brought you to a deeper realization of the mystery of Christ and the Church?
If you believe, contrary to the Church's teaching that the term “non-Catholic Christian” is an oxymoron, and that they have nothing that we could benefit from, this is not the conversation for you. The usual rules around here apply.
posted by Sherry W @ 12:26 PM
20 Comments
20 Comments:
I'm seriously stapped for time today, so just briefly: By and large I have found non-Catholic Christians much more grounded in scripture than many Catholics. That can be both helpful for many of the dicussions of Catolic legal and social thought in which my colleagues and I are engaged, and can also be challenging.
Susan
1) I find the fact that Protestants pray very important. Protestants are constantly praying for my ailments and wishes! They offer to, and I can ask them. I had a Protestant colleague, now sadly departed for another job, who used to use his time walking into work to say his morning prayer. I find this inspiring.
2) I find the vivid faith of Protestants inspiring. I don't mean faith in the articles of the Creed, though the ones I know have that. I mean 'existential' faith, living in a mode of faith.
Let's see--hmmm--pure-bred Catholics as opposed to "Protestant interlopers to the Catholic faith"....
Now where have I heard the likes of that contention before?
Ah, yes, could it be a modern version of the first century contention between the Judaizers, with their prescription of circumcision and Mosaic law vs. the "saved by grace through faith" crowd of Pauline upstarts.
Can't ya just hear 'em, the Judaizers: "How dare those newbies think that they're as good as us old-hands! They have nothing to offer but their enthusiasm, their gratitude, their inspired insights into God. Who needs that! Augustine: who's that? We have the security blanket of our laws and rituals. etc.,etc.
To the new 'chosen people' I'd say: "Illegitimi non carborundum." Stiff upper lip--other cheek; dust off the shoes; and any other encouraging words I could muster.
To the nay-sayers, the "nattering nabobs of negativity", I'd say, "Talk to my lawyer, i.e., the Other Advocate, and see what He says."
As for me and my household, we will serve the Lord, in spite of what the nay-sayers say.
Peace,
.ed.
Oh gosh, where do I begin?
One of my closest friends is a liberal Episcopalian. Yes, we are constantly sparring over issues of doctrine. He is a Methodist preacher's son, and grew up in a household steeped in the social gospel tradition. His love for the poor -- to the point of organizing his leave time so he can work less during the week and volunteer -- is inspiring. His parents are paragons of devotion. His father was a prophetic voice challenging whites to embrace civil rights in a very difficult time in the South, and suffered much for his dedication to the cause of human dignity.
And as pretty much anyone who has had any dealings with evangelicals or former evangelicals will testify: their love for God's Word! The way Scripture permeates everything! They're steeped in it! Oh to have such a familiarity with the Bible!
The centrality of a relationship with Christ -- and the easy with which so many of them talk about this, and the role it plays in their lives. Would that we learn something!
The sense that all believers have a part of the mission of Christ, not just preachers or leaders.
In that interview I just posted at my blog with an Indian Jesuit missionary, he highlighted the same things: lay leadership, love for Scripture, and a deep commitment to the person of Jesus, in conditions of extreme economic hardship.
Praise God!
Is it so hard for some Catholics to understand that non-Catholics can also be inspired by the Holy Spirit?
Did we not just hear this Sunday, "Not everyone who says 'Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father in heaven?"
In the past 20 years of living in Colorado I have come to know many wonderful non-Catholics, after growing up in a Catholic ghetto for most of my early life.
Things I've learned from non-Catholic Christians:
- Learn the BOOK. I've always been impressed by how well they know Holy Scripture, and can recite text, chapter and verse by heart! My Catholic upbringing included memorizing prayers, but not large block of Scripture. I learned to love the Word of God from them, and to appreciate, as a result, the Liturgy of the Word at Mass where we listen to large portions of Scripture throughout the year
- How are we the same, and how are we different - because our children wanted to know how are Catholics different from "Christians". I couldn't answer that very well until I did some learning and came to understand and appreciate the differences as well as similarities. I see many more similarities than differences, and the values we share for God, family, marriage, country strengthen us. I feel blessed by the example of many charitable, loving non-Catholic friends living and following Christ in some radical ways. The differences have helped me appreciate my Catholic faith more, especially the sacraments and most especially the Holy Eucharist.
- The call to evangelize. This is truly challenging to an introverted Catholic like me, but I know it's important. Talking about/sharing my faith just does not come easily or naturally, especially with anyone other than those closest to me. But I see so many wonderful Protestant friends (and converts) share openly and confidently, it impresses me. I hope to overcome the obstacles in my way that keep me from telling others of the reason for my hope. "Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope." 1 Peter 3:15
- Last but not least, the call to support our church financially by tithing. The idea of giving 10% back to God never entered our consciousness until we read about it in some Protestant magazines we came across. Since then it's become more a part of the call to stewardship in our Catholic parish and diocese, but we certainly didn't grow up hearing about tithing.
Thanks to all of you who have shared so far. It's been enlightening.
I think a part of this is, perhaps, that we Catholics many times hear Protestants who refer to themselves as Christians then turn around and behave in a very unChristian manner towards us Catholics. I work with a Protestant who is heavily involved with his church, and I have overheard him say the ugliest and most untrue things about Catholicism. Yet, since Christianity cannot be boxed in or even completely understood, as we Catholics should be well aware, as our culture is pressuring the Church to liberalize her doctrines. I don't think the Holy Spirit manifests itself in measured doses based on worthiness (or I would be SOL for sure). Or perhaps, I should say, based on doctrines. Still, Protestants tend to give us the short shrift based on misguidance and misinformation. It's too bad. Because we have such a treasure and 2000 years of wisdom and holiness. If you don't understand it, that gives you no license to bash it. Yet our Lord says we must forgive. And we should welcome our Protestant brothers who join us and rejoice that they have discovered our treasure. Julie
Julie:
I would say that given my experience on the internet, bashing people in the most unChristian manner is a human problem. I got to say that I haven't seen any Catholic reluctance to do so - or to bash Protestants in ways that really are caricatures.
Since all of us are prone to do so, it becomes every more important that we 1) recognize and honor the work that the Holy Spirit has done in our separated brothers and sisters. If we recognize it, that reassures them that 1) we are true disciples ourselves; 2) that we have some spiritual discernment. Only then are they likely to listen to us talk of the fulness of the apostolic faith.
In any case, our topic here is
"What about your experience of non-Catholic Christians has inspired you, challenged you, edified you, or has brought you to a deeper realization of the mystery of Christ and the Church?"
I've connected on a deep and unspoken level with a number of non-Catholic Christians because they know and love and are loved by the same Christ I know and love and am loved by.
I've also been humbled by the prolife commitment of some evangelicals that I've met. For example, many drove for miles to pray fervently outside the Woodside Hospice in Clearwater where Terri Schiavo died.
My husband and I drive by several Protestant churches on our way home from Sunday Mass as we say the Rosary & I often pray "May we all be one!" One of these is an independent Pentacostal type church started by an ex-Catholic couple that we were friends with years ago.. Judy
Things I appreciate:
1. Enthusiastic congregational singing and beautiful hymns
2. Carefully crafted, well delivered sermons that inspire and uplift.
3. Genuine love and fellowship within the church community.
4. Ministers who make an effort to know each person's name, and relate to them personally.
Elizabeth
What I have found most strongly among non-Catholic Christians is a seriousness about reaching out to others in an attempt to share the gospel, to preach, to evangelize. In my area, this is something Catholics would do well to study and learn from .
{off topic}
Sherry,
Are you familiar with the CBC school in Colorado Springs? SEE: http://www.charisbiblecollege.org/
Andrew Wommack Ministries? Looks like some people are taking ID seriously.
Peace,
.ed.
.ed:
No, hadn't heard of it - but not surprised. There are several Christian colleges/schools here including a branch of my own alma mater - Fuller! And a hundred major evangelical ministries are located here- some huge and world-famous and others very obscure.
The one that inspired the most giggles in me?: Cowboys for Jesus! Religious non-profits make up about 8% of the local economy.
They don't call this the "evangelical Vatican" for nothing! We are the only Catholic one, I think.
Sherry Weddell
I have always found a starkness and simplicity in Protestant Christianity that I have found admirable if incomprehensible. Especially in High Church Anglican forms of worship, (not Anglo-Catholic), there is a serene beauty that I find very moving. Their hymns are really pretty too.
I grew up a cradle Catholic in Lou., KY where most people were Catholic but nobody talked about or mentioned religion outside of church. As an adult I have moved South (Nashville, TN) where I am in the minority. I have been told that there are more churches here, per capita, than anywhere else in the nation(mostly Baptist & COC.)
What is remarkable is the openess to discussing your religion. It is not odd to here things daily from strangers such as: "I'll say a prayer for you" or "Praise the Lord". I have found that even my Catholic Church is more open to talking, practicing and studying the faith because of those around us. We, therefore, are more positive examples of Catholics on fire with their faith and drawing acceptance and interest.
I am reminded of St. Francis: "Preach the Gospel often; sometimes use words" We of different religions can affect each other this way.
Pax Christ
Greg
Thanks alot for your thoughtful comments so far, everyone. You are bringing up things I hadn't thought of yet! It is good to know that Catholic,Protestant, and Orthodox disciples can encourage one another just by doing what we are doing: trying to follow Jesus!
I'd love to be able to ask this question of evangelicals:
What about your experience of Catholic Christians has inspired you, challenged you, edified you, or has brought you to a deeper realization of the mystery of Christ and the Church?
But it would be most illuminating and helpful to hear from them on the subject - not from us. So Protestant readers, feel free to respond to that version of the question.
For those of us who are Catholic:
let's stay focused on: What about your experience of non-Catholic Christians has inspired you, challenged you, edified you, or has brought you to a deeper realization of the mystery of Christ and the Church?
As John Paul II and Pope Benedict put it "an exchange of gifts"
+JMJ+
This is fun :o) I think I might actually be able to comment from both sides. I was an Evangelical for 20 years and my family still is. We're in Colorado too since '95. First, a list of the most inspirational things to me about Evangelicals and things from my Evangelical background that have been immensely helpful:
1) Fearlessness in sharing faith. Evangelicals know well that the Holy Spirit moves hearts. We're just called to plant as many seeds as we can. Very rarely do most of us get to do the harvesting. That means we have nothing to lose, and no effort is ever wasted!
2) Confidence in God's mercy. God can and wants to forgive everything, if only we'll let Him. No sin is hopeless, if only we'll really repent of it.
3) Commitment to Scripture. We have at our fingertips an elaborate love story about how God, the Creator of Heaven and Earth, loved us literally to death. Why don't we have more of that story memorized?
4) Familiarity with Jesus. Evangelicals just talk to Him like they'd talk to you or me. I think we can tend to forget that prayer doesn't have to be formal. On Earth, Jesus was a king undercover. His closest followers talked to Him like a carpenter. We can too!
And a second list includes features of Catholicism and Catholics that brought me into the Church:
1) Coherence and depth of theology. We don't have to develop elaborate explanations for Bible verses like, "Faith without works is dead." We can take them for what they say. It all fits together, and it's both superficially accessible to everyone and unfathomably deep to those who probe it.
2) THE EUCHARIST. (I'm kind of going in order of which influenced me first, not which influenced me most, or this one would be first!) I can meet Jesus in the flesh while on Earth. Nothing compares to that.
3) Evangelism by life witness. Rather than just standing on the street corner, Catholic evangelism usually looks more like being deeply involved in someone's life because you love them, and sharing your whole life, including your faith, because of that relationship.
4) Saints. No matter who you are, what you love, or what you struggle with, we have an example of someone who felt that way before and became holy because/in spite of it. You can too!
5) Mary. Surprising how late this really hit me. In fact, two years later, I don't think it fully has yet. But of course Jesus wants us to honor His mom. What Son wouldn't? :o)
That's just a short list. I'm very grateful for the foundation I received as an Evangelical, but even more grateful to see it coming every day nearer completion through the fullness of Truth in the Church. We have Truth Himself present at Mass every day, you know? How could we NOT have the fullness of Truth?
I just keep praying for opportunities to share more and more of it with people all the time!
Endowments from non-Catholic Christians. Hmm, let me think.
(1) Decent music in the English language and the ability to sing it in four-part harmony, with feeling.
(2) Lectio divina.
(3) Bibles with thumb indexes.
(4) Leading by example if not by theological accuracy into the means of modern communication.
(5) Nice cemetery art.
Can we flip it around?
I think what causes people to go off the deep end in the way that Dr. Blosser's interlocutor did is that there can be a kind of cognitive dissonance with the Faith itself.
If all these people not in the Church, if all these folks living without the Eucharist can be so darned tootin' great and filled with the grace of God, etc., and even better than us, then what use is Catholicism? Doesn't it come to seem optional?
Well, of course, there are arguments against this, but for some people they just ring hollow.
If the Lutherans are so cool as Lutherans, why should they become Catholic? Why shouldn't we become Lutheran, maybe?
I think these are questions not just worth answering, but worth meditating on over the years. And part of that meditation should consist in asking ourselves if perhaps the nutcases have a real if limited point.
Jeff:
As a convert myself from evangelicalism, I'm a living testimony that someone who knew and relished some of the very best that evangelicalism offers - and continues to revere that very best - still became Catholic because I wanted the fullness of the historic faith. Not to repudiate my Christian heritage but to fulfill it.
This idea that we can't afford to recognize and rejoice in the good God in doing among our separated brothers and sisters because it might undermind our "cause" is pathetic.
They have great strengths and very real weaknesses that their gifts do not eliminate and that really matter.
It is contrary to the Church's express teaching, to reality, to faith, hope, and charity,and to spiritual and intellectual honesty to say that we must deny the gifts - which are *the work of God" - in order to highlight the weaknesses. It shows a remarkably fearful and feeble sense of the faith.
Compared to Catholicism's vast riches of history, spirituality, culture, theology, etc. - evangelicalism is vastly "smaller" - What they have of the faith, *they received from us* but they live it with an intensity that we could learn a lot from.
I have meditated over these questions - both as an evangelical and a Catholic and voted with my feet. I suspect that this sort of fear is more likely to both cradle Catholics. I've never meet a convert who felt that way.
Sherry W
Post a Comment
<< Home