When I Grow Up, I'm Gonna Start Me a Filthy Rich Cult
Since the original conversation that sparked this post has been closed down, I see no point in retaining the link and so have adapted my post below as follows.
I'm sorry but nobody has ever referred to me as "a dazzling heretic". Now Fr. Michael Sweeney , my co-founder, was dazzling but no one has ever used that word of me. And as for my "cult" (HAH!) - if only! What's the point in running a poverty-striken cult?
We've been vetted by the Pontifical Council for the Laity (that's how you get invited to present at World Youth Day, folks), the diocese of Lincoln, Nebraska (ever been vetted by Bishop Bruskewitz???? It's easier to make it onto the Supreme Court.) etc.
If you'd like to know where we stand, no worries. It's all documented. Check our library links to The Parish: Mission or Maintenance - the presentation we gave to seminarians and theologians in Rome at the North American College and the Angelicum.
Or get a hold of our Catholic Spiritual Gifts Resource Guide where I've documented all the sources in Catholic teaching on the charisms: Scriptural, patristic, Thomistic, conciliar, magisterial, papal, and from the universal catechism.
I've said it before and I'll say it again - we are meticulous in our attempts to think and teach with the Church. Really. Truly.
It's not a pose. It is what drew us into existence in the first place.
We aren't perfect by any means. But we are trying to be faithful.
posted by Sherry W @ 8:12 AM
30 Comments
30 Comments:
Sherry,
If you skim the post by GerardP in the CAF thread, you'll get a feel for the nay-saying that is rife on that forum.
It seems that, on CAF, anything that is NOT strictly "traditionalist" is quickly labelled "modernist" or "Syncretist" (whatever that is) or "diabolical". This includes charismatics, novus ordo mass proponents, non-Feeneyites, advocates of VC II, etc.
I wonder if the nay-sayers on that forum haven't misread Wisdom 2:12-22 and made that passage their mantra.
I'd offer a comment but I've already been errr,hmmm, "asked" to leave the forum a couple of years ago for trying to "defend" the charismatic renewal against several of the more vociferous nay-sayers. Having dusted the electrons off my virtual shoes, I won't revisit CAF until I've visited all the other forums on the Web. [BG]
Ed Keefe
"And as for my "cult" (HAH!) - if only! What's the point in running a poverty-striken cult?"
ROTFL!! Sherry, that was great!!!
I tried to jump into the fray, but the thread was closed by the moderator before I could get registered and post anything. Mark Shea made an able defense of you and the Institute before it shut down, though.
See you tonight in Portland!
Sherry:
Kudos to you, sister. I was wondering when it was going to hit.
In Oshkosh, I attempted to start an evangelization ministry called Our Father's House. It got the hyper-"conservative" Catholics in a lather, since I was advertizing to those interested in Christianity, but had no where to go to get questions answered. We appealed to anyone, lapsed Catholic, Protestants, irreligious, etc. and we met on Sundays, since that is when people go to church. Since I had a high-profile conversion in our city as a former Protestant minister, some Catholics thought my conversion was suspect. They thought I was starting a Protestant Church since I was preaching and teaching in a quasi-church setting (It was actually an empty Methodist Church that we used as a gathering spot). Some thought that I was trying to be in a role as a priest without the credentials or the ordination. Others thought I was a schizmatic, starting an alternative Catholic Church. I countered that there were no sacraments being offered at the Church, just teaching, with a view to send those who come to their former Churches to receive further instruction. Catholics just couldn't get over the fact that I, as a Catholic, wanted to use my gifts to reach out to those who didn't attend church. What did they want...me just to sit in my pew with them and watch the world go by?
Eventually, we dropped the project, which is one of those noble experiments that didn't fly, but I remain irked at an evangelization-resistant Church in Oshkosh. I refuse to leave our responsibility to the mission to our Protestant family members. Phooey on that! I'm about ready to try another hair-brain scheme. When I get it together in my head, I'll run it by you to see what you think.
Thanks for your time!
Sam Wood
Ms. Weddell,
Forgive the anonymous post. This is Gerard from the thread in question. Someone on Catholic Answers forums asked me to look over your site and your writings and to see if I saw anything either heterodox or significantly missing.
I point out the term "missing" because many people in our day and age are sincere in their beliefs but they are either influenced heavily by modernism or they were simply not taught many aspects of traditional Catholic teaching. Filling this void are often the bad philosophies and ideas that have been infecting the Church for the last few decades prominently and for the last 2 centuries under the surface.
What I posted was what I based on my admittedly limited perspective and I qualified it as such.
I was disturbed by your more liberal interpretation of "No Salvation Outside the Church" which exaggerates as explicit what is only speculation at best in the Catechism and not explicit at all.
For any site I look into, I first look for how Our Divine Lord and Savior is addressed and His prominence as a person and I also look for Our Lady to see how she is being treated or neglected.
I have experience in and with virtually every major faction philosophically speaking of the Church in these days. I've experiencd the Charismatic Renewal, been taught by very liberal orders of priests and nuns who worship Rahner and Chardin more than Our Lord it seems. I grew up in the post-conciliar Church in the 70's and 80's. I am a traditionalist because that is where the "fullness" of the Catholic faith and Intimacy with the Divine is to be found.
To use your langauge, It's my "charism" to find what is missing in many spiritual expressions and philosophical arguments.
I'll be looking through your sites for any references to St. Micheal and his role in the Church this coming weekend. Another majorly important person for Catholics to be devoted to especially in our Day when the Church's defenses have been so lowered.
If you'd like to take advantage of what I'm pointing out, I would be open to helping you.
God Bless,
Gerard
"To use your langauge, It's my "charism" to find what is missing in many spiritual expressions and philosophical arguments."
Is that self-discerned?
Just Another Beggar: I hope you try again and am happy you are not completely discouraged. God bless you! (And Sherry too. We so need you!) The Methodists and Presbyterians in my town, faced with very small, dwindling memberships, are going great guns at starting new "worship" -- they say these are not "services" -- very informal gatherings with music (praise bands), food, etc., very seeker friendly, youth oriented, trying to grow membership, aimed at the "unchurched." Their core doctrines are not even in consideration. I wonder now, what can we Catholics do. Of course, we can't throw out our doctrines, or change the Mass. Why can't we have gatherings, fellowship, what have you, outside of Mass for seekers that are very inviting, and informative, and not intimidating? How else can we compete? We can grumble, but these people are very serious and energetic and determined. We Catholics might just cut off our own ears to spite our face if we are not careful.
Julie
Gerard, welcome to the blog. I for one appreciate your taking the time to come and check us out. Please do visit the www.siena.org website and peruse the materials there.
I wish to assure you (though I'm not sure if I'll be successful) that the St. Catherine of Siena Institute and Sherry herself are truly and deeply wed in spirit to our Holy Mother Church. I know of many people like yourself who were raised in the horrible times just after the Second Vatican Council, when way too many dissident priests and religious purposely corrupted catechesis with New Age, pseudo-psychological, intellectually-contentless pablum (or worse, heresy). Because of these horrible experiences (I was growing up Baptist at the time, but I had my share of it), I understand why folks like yourself are wary of certain concepts that are assumed to be Protestant in origin, or you get nervous about certain turns of phrase that have been associated with this poor "anti"-catechesis. (For example, the word charismatic for us does not denote a Protestant style of worship popularized at the turn of the century, but rather it refers more broadly to the work of the Holy Spirit - His work in Church history as well as in the present and future. We use the word the way it's used in Catholic Church magisterial documents.)
The Institute's programs and teaching are based solidly on papal encyclicals, the Catechism, Scripture, the testimonies of the saints, and other magisterial statements of Catholic doctrine and practice. It is an honest attempt to help all Catholics understand the concept of vocation as something that applies to all baptized Christians, not just priests and religious. This does not not blur the distinction between lay and ordained, but in fact draws a more stark separation between the two and gives us laypeople a solid base for effective collaboration in the work of the Gospel.
I must say, as gently as I can, that your use of the term "charism" above reflects a misapprehension of what your charism(s) really are. You are obviously very detail-oriented and have studied a lot; you may in fact have a charism of knowledge or teaching. But, the power behind all of the gifts of the Spirit is love (I Cor. 12-14), and any charism must be exercised with the goal of love, or it will disintegrate.
I am concerned that the yardstick you are using to measure the teaching of the Institute (how much we talk of Mary or St. Michael) will not yield an accurate result for you of how the Lord's and the Church's truth is being preached and taught by Sherry and other Institute teachers. All of us are gifted in different ways, and those gifts will look and work differently on different people and apostolates, depending on our God-given mission. To use the analogy of Christ's Body, I fear that you're judging us by "eye" criteria when we are in fact "hands".
I am led to pray that the Lord will increase your discernment, so that you can use your talents to measure spiritual realities accurately and not to condemn works that God is really behind.
Julie:
Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. I am going to do something akin to Our Father's House again, what exactly or when, I'm not sure yet. But, it's coming! I found a dynamic priest from a nearby town who agrees with my idea and who I think would make a great chaplain for our cause.
There are so many people and so little time. Pray the Lord of the harvest to bring workers. God bless!
Sam
Interesting thread and I have not posted before (although I have followed the blog for some time).
Anyway, I attended a conference over the last couple of days led by Fr. Timothy Radcliffe, O.P. (Sherry - he shared how he made the list of heretics too at the last L.A. conference and his hair was still, in his words, "undisciplined"). He spoke much about the need for healthy dialog and a desire to heal the divisions in our Church.
I appreciate Gerard's and Kathleen's exchange because they clearly have some differences, but there was dialog, not accusation and fear-mongering that our Church is falling apart.
I appreciate Gerard's desire to raise the Church's defenses, yet we have been promised that Jesus Christ is our Head and in Matt 16 that the gates of hell will not prevail against His Church.
The fear of "conservatives" or "traditionalists" that somehow we will fall into error that will betray the faith that has been handed down to us through the apostles could lead some to deny authentic leading of the Holy Spirit and frustrate the efforts of people like Gerard who are trying to evangelize their part of the world.
The fear of "liberals" or "progressives" that somehow we will betray the openness of the Second Vatican Council or somehow be trapped inside the walls of a Church under siege with no way to reach the outside world seem equally unfounded. There is fear of a rigid hierarchy that would stifle the legitimate office of the laity. Part of our faith, as noted earlier, is that Jesus Christ is our Head and the apostles of our day with all levels of the institutional hierarchy will ultimately be guided by the Holy Spirit in truth to Jesus who is the way, the truth, and the life.
Anyway, I apologize for the use of labels as they categorize positions very broadly and may not always be relevant, but it was on my mind that we, all of us who profess to be disciples of Jesus, must be conscious that the way we communicate with each other is a strong witness to the world. If we are to evangelize the world, then we must start by giving witness to the love of Christ which reaches out to people beyond their fear and seeks to bring peace and healing.
With the grace and peace of Christ to all of you,
Charlie Hoover
Sam,
I will pray for your success! That is great news.
Julie
I've had the thought of renting a storefront and leading Sunday Morning Prayer with a Scripture reading and reflection, scattering some flyers, and letting whoever wanders in wander in. So I can certainly see the value and importance of something like Our Father's House.
At the same time, I don't think you need to be a member of the Society of St. Pius I to reserve judgment when you hear of such a project.
I'm not sure, though, what the traditional incubation period is before a newly received Catholic is permitted to evangelize. Whatever it is, St. Genesius for one doesn't seem to have observed it -- but then, when did an actor ever stand on decorum?
Fortunately, the Church has a simple test for efforts like Our Father's House: obedience to the bishop. For that matter, the test works for efforts against efforts like Our Father's House, too.
Sam,
Have you thought of using the Catholic version of ALPHA as a way to do what you want? Just a stray thought....
But realistically if your reputation precedes you in Oshkosh, maybe it's time to move on down the road where no one knows your name.
Peace,
Ed K.
Ed:
Unfortunately, my reputation is diocesan wide, though I must say it has improved over the last 5-8 years! Being an advocate for magesterial teaching and catechesis in the diocese helps win the traditionalists. Also, my ETWN appearance was a huge boon. But, my problem is not only with traditionalists who resist evangelization; loosey-goosey "liberals" fear my reliance on the Magesterium of the Catholic Church and the mentioning of Scott Hahn! I feel like Dr. Van Helsing when I mention Hahn or Humanae Vitae--the vampires come alive!
Tom:
Ultimately, do we need a Bishops approval to do the work of Christ? I have a baptismal obligation to participate in the Apostolate of the Church. However, Canon Law requires that I get approval only if I take the name "Catholic" in my organizational name, or if the organization will have the sacraments available such as having a Eucharistic chapel. This is quite reasonable and necessary. Please correct me if I am missing something. For instance, Karl Keeting sought and got diocesan approval when starting Catholic Answers, obviously since "Catholic" is in the name. Our Father's House, however, did not. Also, "Our Father's House" had no sacraments nor did we conduct any Catholic liturgy. Ideally, it was a loosely structured prayer meeting similar to what you find with charismatic prayer meetings. This could have been another reason for the community resistance. No one who condemned the work ever visited our groups, and I heard nothing from the Bishop at all. In any case, everything we taught was straight with the Pope. What I experienced is quite similar to what Sherry is experiencing.
Let's say though that the Bishop of Green Bay hears about my efforts and clamps down on me, seeing what I do as looking too "Protestant" and shuts me down. Do I acquiesce? Not at first; I will listen to his argument, but if it is based on anti-protestant prejudices I will push back. Protestants have been carrying water for Catholics in evangelization for too long. We've got to ante-up and get our creative juices flowing. If the Bishop persists and condemns what I am doing, of course I'll stop. But, then I'll shake the dust off my feet, move to a different diocese, and continue my joyful obligation.
How many of our saints were at times repelled by Bishops to preach in their diocese. St. Francis comes to mind, preaching in open fields where people emptied towns and villages to hear him; St. Louis de Monfort also comes to mind. He quietly moved to different districts if repelled by envious bishops.
We have to keep in mind that the bulk of the resistance to the Gospel of Jesus may be from Catholics themselves. Sadly, historical facts show this to be too often the case. Do we have the guts to endure rejection by our own for the sake of Christ? I pray that if this were to happen that I and all of us do. Otherwise, if we don't act heroically, the 8:1 ratio continues, even grows. Lord have mercy on us.
Sam said: "I feel like Dr. Van Helsing when I mention Hahn or Humanae Vitae--the vampires come alive!"
ROTFL...what can I say? Been there, done that; got the bloody T-shirt to prove it. [bg]
Ed
Let's go vampire hunting, Ed! :D
Ultimately, do we need a Bishops approval to do the work of Christ?
Yes.
Really? So, if you want to have a Bible study in your home that is rooted in Catholic tradition, you need the a Bishop to okay it? I'm afraid your wrong, my brother.
You can do any work that is inspired by the Spirit. If Mother Teresa would have waited for approval from a Bishop to start her ministry to the dying in Calcutta, she would have never gotten started. It was only after the Pope blessed her with a new automobile in thanks for her work was she finally noticed by the local Bishop.
St. Francis did not wait for a Bishop's approval to begin his preaching ministry. He sought the Pope's approval and protection once he started to have a following.
I think you are trying to be overly obedient to your superiors which is common, but often straight-jackets any new work of Christ among the faithful. Read Christofideles Laici; it's an eye opener.
So, if you want to have a Bible study in your home that is rooted in Catholic tradition, you need the a Bishop to okay it?
Explicitly? No. Ahead of time? No. Ultimately? Yes.
If Mother Teresa would have waited for approval from a Bishop to start her ministry to the dying in Calcutta, she would have never gotten started.
From what I've read of her letters, I wouldn't say Mother Teresa is the best example of someone who went ahead and did what she wanted without worrying about what the bishop said.
In any case, and speaking only for myself, if a layman is trying to convince me of the Catholic bona fides of his apostolic activity, about the worst thing for him to do when I mention obedience to the bishop is to dismiss it as irrelevant to the Important Work for Christ he is undertaking.
Tom:
I suspect that you are mixing categories here.
It is, in fact, authentic Church teaching that lay Catholics are to exercise real leadership and initiative in the matter of bringing Christ to others and transforming the cultures and structures of the world in Christ's name. As Pope John Paul Ii pointed out in Crossing the Threshold of Hope, when it comes to bringing Christ to the world, the most obscure lay person has the same authority and responsibility as the Pope himself.
Listed in the Code of Canon Law, even before our right to receive the Word of God and the sacraments, is canon 211 which guarantees to every baptized person: “the right to evangelize the nations."
All the laity are missionaries by baptism (Redemptoris Missio, 71).”
¼they are bound by the general obligation and they have the right; whether as individuals or in associations, to strive so that the divine message of salvation may be known and accepted by all people throughout the world (Apostolicam Actuositatem, 6, 13).
That's why lay people are described as having a "right" and "duty" to formation (which is only given to those with a mission on the behalf of Christ and his Church). Formation prepares us, as it does clergy and religious, to carry out a unique mission.
Not only is it physically impossible for a bishop of a million people to inquire into and give permission for each conversation about Christ or home Bible study or outreach to the someone in trouble, it is not and never has been part of Catholic understanding.
Hence the spiritual and corporal works of mercy, which have been understood to be the responsibility of all the baptized for many centuries.
As Sam said - read Christifideles Laici or get ahold of Russell Shaw's Catholic Laity in the Mission of the Church (http://shop.siena.org/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=20) or
read The Parish: Mission or Maintenance?
(http://www.siena.org/library/parish.htm#_2._Lay_Catholics:)
This is not a matter of "rights" but of missionary responsibility - we may well be the only person with entrance into this given situation or this relationship. A priest or bishop would be both unwelcome and completely without credibility or effectiveness in many secular settings. We are the one who God has anointed for, called and gifted for that moment or place.
Canon Law does give us the right to start, organize, and run our own apostolic initiatives. We can't use the name "Catholic" without getting the permission of our bishop - but that doesn't mean, for one minute, that we are supposed to check in with our local chancery before we move a muscle.
Sherry W.
Great word, Sherry! And I hope that helps, Tom.
The topic of Sherry's post is the maltreatment that some apostolates receive from well-meaning but misguided Catholics. In previous postings, Sherry, you have mentioned repeatedly the ingrained resistance within Catholic culture to evangelization and intentional discipleship. These are, in my opinion, THE TWO GREAT CAUSES of such rapid decline in the Church in America, Europe and Central and South America.
There is a two pronged problem: one, liberalism as a philosophy, has infected the Church all throughout the 20th century, but exposed its ugly head soon after Vatican II, distorting the Council's message to the faithful. Second, and more appropriate to this post is the hard search for an authentic Catholic identity to offset this Liberal shift. In some cases, this counter-weight becomes reactionary, and good-willed Catholics impugne evangelizing Catholics for doing "Protestant" activities when in fact it has been faithful Protestant brothers and sisters, with flawed theology, who are going out into the highways and byways to compell people to come to Christ.
I think it is a true ecumenical move on our part to praise them for their efforts, which in most cases, foster authentic conversions to Christ. We must resist with all our power the temptation to envy them, meaning, to criticize them and tear down the good that they do simply because their doctrines aren't all correct. We as Catholics must be humble enough to acknowledge the graces God is giving them for their good-will. They are also spot on with some of the doctrines; we must be humble enough to learn from them. That's what is so tough.
I think this gets the traditionalist Catholics' goad; they can't stand the fact that God can grace other imperfect endeavors. It's much like St. John complaining (Mark 9:38-41)to Jesus about others who were not of their group, hand-picked by Jesus! casting out demons in Christ's name. What did Jesus say to this charge? "Those are not real exorcisms?" NO! He said, "He who is not against me is with me." He also qualifies his statement in the same context by warning us of leading others astray. We, as Catholics, need to cease envying and criticizing our Protestant family members for the good they do. Yet, we, who know better, MUST get our evangelistic content and methods right. We don't want millstones around our necks, do we? (shudder)
What an intriguing set of comments! I am reminded of John Paul II's words from an address to the Charismatic Renewal in (I think) May/June of 1999: "The charismatic and the institutional elements of the Church are *co-essential*." (emphasis mine).
It seems to me that these two elements have been quite unnecessarily separated in folks' minds, in practice in many parishes, etc., though they are not, in reality! This seems to have led to much confusion for your traditional Catholic who thinks the charismatic renewal is very suspect -- as well as for those Catholics in the renewal who don't know their faith so well. Both sides need something the other side is emphasizing, and there's more to be done to bring the goods from both sides across the unnecessary line that seems to often divide them.
I think there has been a shift of tone on charismatics, at least in the Vatican. Here are some remarks by Benedict XVI to the Bishops of Guatemala:
To respond to the growth of sects, the Pope encouraged them, saying, “firmness in the faith and participation in the Sacraments strengthens your faithful against the risk posed by sects or by supposedly charismatic groups, which create disorientation and can even endanger ecclesial communion.”
Janice
Here's the Spanish text:
"Dios ha bendecido al pueblo guatemalteco con un profundo sentimiento religioso, rico de expresiones populares, que han de madurar en comunidades cristianas sólidas, celebrando con gozo su fe como miembros vivos del Cuerpo de Cristo (cf. 1Co 12, 27) y fieles al fundamento de los Apóstoles. Sabéis muy bien que la firmeza de la fe y la participación en los sacramentos hacen fuertes a vuestros fieles ante el riesgo de las sectas o de grupos pretendidamente carismáticos, que crean desorientación y llegan a poner en peligro la comunión eclesial."
Janice
Sherry:
I am not using "ultimately" in a chronological sense, like "eventually" or "sooner or later" (or, as you and J.A.B. seem to think, "immediately").
I'm using it in a hierarchical sense, in the sense that the bishop is the ultimate (well, maybe penultimate) authority in his diocese.
As Lumen Gentium puts it (n. 27), "In virtue of this [episcopal] power, bishops have the sacred right and the duty before the Lord to make laws for their subjects, to pass judgment on them and to moderate everything pertaining to the ordering of worship and the apostolate."
Janice:
A reference to obviously non-Catholic "charismatic" groups who are attracting Catholics away from the Church in Latin America is not in any way, a reference to the Catholic charismatic renewal which in communion with the Church. The International office of the Renewal has been formally recognized by the Vatican as having a "juridical personality" and the Confraternity of Charismatic communities have also been recognized as a private association of the faithful.
Pope Benedict has publicly and explicitly been supportive of the renewal in Italy, for instance, as in this address from 2005:
"Benedict XVI voiced support for an international congress that is being promoted by the Renewal in the Spirit movement in Italy.
"The last century, sprinkled by sad pages of history, is at the same time full of wonderful testimonies of spiritual and charismatic awakening in every realm of human life," the Pope said Wednesday, referring to the themes to be addressed by the congress.
The theme of the congress is "The Signs of the Spirit in the 20th Century. A Historical Rereading: The Witnesses' Account." The event takes place this Friday through Sunday in Lucca.
"For these reasons, I congratulate the national coordinator of Renewal in the Spirit for having promoted this significant meeting," said the Holy Father.
"I hope the Holy Spirit will meet with an ever more fruitful reception in the hearts of believers and that the 'culture of Pentecost' will spread, so necessary in our time," Benedict XVI concluded before taking leave of the 30,000 people who attended the general audience in St. Peter's Square."
Tom:
You were talking about a Bishop vetting a "home Bible study"! You know - studies that happen more or less immediately in time and space - such as "we're having a Bible study this Friday at my house. What to come?"
No bishop is his right mind would dream of exercising his office in such a petty way. If he is concerned about the quality of Bible study in his diocese, he'll bring in the Denver Biblical School or start an institute to train Bible Study leaders or ask his Director of Adult Faith Formation to come up with some options.
I've gotten consulted quite a bit lately by Dioceses starting up Lay Formation programs so I know how it goes.
If some kind of really big problem became public (they are claiming apparitions of Our Lady at this Bible study and people are flocking to see for instance) he'll ask the local pastor (who has jurisdiction over that parish) or possibly one of his staff to look into it and determine what is really going on.
And certainly no bishop worth his salt is going to discourage local lay Catholics from starting Bible studies on their own initiative in their home or sharing Christ with their neighbor.
To assert that *that* is what is meant by pastoral governance is to miss the point on so many levels.
Pastores Dabo Vobis would also be an excellent read - the most recent work on the office of shepherd which speaks strongly and repeatedly about the responsibility of clergy to call forth and honor the initiatives, charisms and vocations of the laity,
You were talking about a Bishop vetting a "home Bible study"!
No, Sherry, I wasn't.
In fact, even before you characterized my position as "we are supposed to check in with our local chancery before we move a muscle," I'd written that the bishop's "okay" for a home Bible study need be neither explicit nor ahead of time.
I was talking about a bishop having the sacred right and duty to moderate everything pertaining to the ordering of worship and the apostolate in his diocese.
If the question is the Catholicity of a particular apostolate, and the article is Whether obedience to the bishop is necessary, the answer isn't, "Not unless we use the word 'Catholic' in our name." It's not, "Clearly you haven't read the relevant apostolic exhortations." It's certainly not, "If he gets in my way, I'll just shake the dust off my feet and move on," or, "That way lies straight jackets."
The answer is, "Yes."
If I may jump in.
I think we're straying from the point which you, Tom, initially made a while back in your comments:
Tom said: Fortunately, the Church has a simple test for efforts like Our Father's House: obedience to the bishop. For that matter, the test works for efforts against efforts like Our Father's House, too.
Tom, there is no doubt among us all that the Bishop holds pastoral jurisdiction over a diocese. We agree. However, Sherry and I are making a distinction that you probably agree with as well but are holding out for reasons I can but guess. The authority of the Pope and Magesterial teaching hold sway over Bishops, therefore your test of obedience to the local is inadequate. We are free, better, we are obligated not to follow Bishops who are not in union with the Pope in terms of faith or morals.
To be specific, if a Bishop, through administrative means, materially supplants the Baptismal rights of Catholics to fulfill their vocation in the apostolate faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church, then the Bishop has overstepped his bounds. If the Bishop of Green Bay does not wish me to do evangelism, or desires to hamstring me in bureaucratic redtape, I will find another place to do it. Simple as that.
The Church has clearly declared the freedoms I possess to pursue my obligations to mission and witness. The Church, therefore, requires me to move on to preach the Gospel elsewhere when local princes get in the way. This is not arrogance; this is not disobedience; this is bearing the cross for the sake of Christ. Sadly, crosses are laid on us by other Catholics.
Tom:
I'm big on docility. I had my Dominican pastor vet an early version of the Catholic Spiritual Gifts Inventory to make sure I hadn't missed anything and that was only the beginning. And we've since been vetted over and over on numerous levels all the way to Rome. And for us, trust of the Holy Spirit working through the teaching of the Church is not a pose or a something we do when stuck but where we start.
My point is the way you are articulating your objection is either negating or neglecting to include the fact that the Church also explicitly teaches a number of other, highly relevant aspects of the office of the Bishop. Teaching which provide us with the true essence of what sanctifying, teaching, and governing is truly about - communion *and* mission - and which therefore makes sense of all the exhortations to lay apostles to form themselves for the apostolate, to share Christ verbally with others and to take initiative to bring Christ to the world.
The whole reason for the existence of the ordained priesthood is the flourishing of the baptismal priesthood (as the Church explicitly teaches) and the baptismal priesthood is explicitly ordered for the sake of bringing Christ to the world.
Docility in this area is not a matter of proof-texting. It is not thinking with the Church to set one aspect of Church teaching against another or teach it in a way that negates other teaching. We must, in good faith, seek out the whole of what the Holy Spirit is saying to us through the Church.
If we don't understand and teach the whole of Church teaching on the pastoral office (which resides most fully in the Bishop) then we unwittingly distort it - and there are real life consequences - and most profoundly and immediately, for lay people.
One of the real life issues I run into is the reluctance of older cradle Catholics to start or run anything themselves because they didn't think they had the right to organize anything related to their own formation without a priest's permission. And this because of how they understood the pastoral office.
When a group of young adults in Seattle started the famously Nameless Lay Group to provide a support for Catholics on the verge of leaving the Church, we had some older Third Order Dominicans who weren't sure it was legit to do anything without a priest's permission. I had to show them canon law on the subject of right of lay people to organize and run their own group for the purposes of formation before they could relax.
Very nice conversation.
I was led to this site by googling "the signs in the Spirit" congress that the Pope recently put his support upon.
As a charismatic myself, I would only voice that it would be entirely beneficial for the reneal to have an even more structured format along some lines.
An idea that comes to mind is if we had some type of leadership training / certificate program that all prayer group leaders would need to go through.
Why not right? It could help show othre catholics that we are indeed interested in being under the leadership of the Bishop / dicoese.
And also, it could help form our leaders (and future leaders) to be better prepared to be true catholic leaders.
with hope in Jesus,
CF
Post a Comment
<< Home