Christian Music
While I've got music of a spiritual nature on my mind, I wanted to make a quick comment about "Christian" Music. Normally I resist categories like Christian Music or Christian Politics because, of course, there really isn't such a thing--there is music and there is politics. We are called, as lay men and women, to render all areas of human endeavor more authentically just and truly human, bringing the presence of Christ to the areas of secular life in which we live.
Fostering and supporting categories of "Christian" endeavor leads to a kind of enclaving, where Christians only support or inhabit "Christian" areas, and the rest of the world avoids those areas because of their specifically Christian topography.
And yet, I cannot dismiss the profound effect that "Christian" Music has had on the faith of millions of people. It has been a powerful tool for evangelization and encounter with Christ and shouldn't be "tsk-tsked" out of hand.
Many Catholics look down their noses at "Christian" music, pointing out that it is highly reliant upon a "me and Jesus" theology and overly emotional. And yet, the Catholic Church, for all its traditional success in music and the arts, simply hasn't made the inroads into the surrounding culture that our protestant brothers and sisters have in the late 20th and early 21st centuries. I can think of, perhaps, a handful of specifically Catholic musical artists whose work has the depth of musicianship, production quality, and marketing muscle routinely given to "Christian" musical artists.
To be sure, utilizing the culure to transmit the gospel message carries with it some dangers. Looking in to the Christian music scene, it is clear that sometimes the medium has co-opted the message. And yet, bands like Third Day, Jars of Clay, and Switchfoot make their mark--leading hearts and minds to Christ through music.
As Catholics, we can learn a great deal from our protestant brothers and sisters on how to more effectively support and promote the fullness of the gospel message using contemporary forms of music. Note that I am NOT talking about guitars in the sanctuary, but rather, I'm highlighting a specifically secular medium in which we have not lived up to our potential.
And it's a shame.
posted by Keith Strohm @ 1:59 PM
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92 Comments:
Call me the crank, Keith, but I have to honestly say that I'd be counted in the camp that doesn't like CCM. I sang many of these songs in campus fellowships when I was thinking of becoming an evangelical and do find some to be quite catchy. So I don't fear the stuff as some people irrationally do. I just find much of it as bad as the Gather Us In stuff we Catholics have had to endure.
I'm all for contemporary music. I think the reaction some have, that classical is the only good music, is laughable. But I can't exactly praise CCM, even though the production values and marketing are there. Very few of the groups have crossed over. For the most part, it is a completely separate music scene that feeds product to a completely separate culture. And ironically I think that's why it is so identifiable to many of us. I just think it has had far less impact on the culture than is usually assumed. Even with a group like Jars of Clay, who I think are quite good, I can't think of a non-Christian who knows who they are. Maybe I'm an outlier. Time-Life's venture into selling "praise" music is nothing more, in my view, than an effort to capture some of the CCM dollars. But I think it is the subculture buying product it creates and consuming it itself.
Whereas, the rest of the culture turns to U2, Dylan and even some of Cash's stuff and others for "spiritual" contemporary music. I'm not necessarily holding any of those artists up as role models.
I think the challenge any artist who wants to use their music to express the faith has is in whether they will join the "subculture's scene" or push beyond that. And it's easy to be put into a box. For example, I love Jonny Lang's music. He became a Christian. And he released a recent album (which won a Grammy) about his struggles and his faith. But immediately he was grabbed by the evangelical music scene and labeled a CCM artist. We are talking about a scene that probably had little awareness of him for the ten years prior and that the blues scene considered him to be the next guitar great, just on the heels of BB King and Clapton. And what was his new album given a Grammy for? Not blues, but for best "Rock or Rap Gospel" album. Even he's already started to be pigeon-holed. It's definitely a more Gospel-tinged album than a straight blues album, but I can bet you that if he were marketed differently (there was heavy CCM marketing of this album) it would have been nominated in a different category.
The other thing to note is how much the CCM and church worship scene overlap. It has a bit of influence on why they have a more established contemporary music subculture than we do, I think.
One last thought -- and a bit of a reversal of my others. I do think intentionality makes a difference to this. Meaning, a place where I do see a lot of contemporary music being written within the Catholic culture is in the lay movements. Many of them have a tradition of singing and have songs that are unique to the movements.
Without intentionality, I just don't see why one would be moved to write an expressly Catholic-themed song. (And let's set to the side the question of what makes good lyric writing for now.) You tend not to write songs about organizations. You tend to write them about experience, about emotions, about relationships.
Without that, I do think we get stuck with our contemporary Catholic music being written primarily by professional liturgists. Because otherwise, who else is motivated to do it?
My name is Susan Bailey and I am the editor and publisher of GrapeVine Magazine. We cover contemporary Catholic music and we're found at www.gvonline.net. There is a well-developed "underground", if you will, of contemporary Catholic artists who are striving to share their faith through music. Many different genres beyond liturgical and adult contemporary including rap, hip hop and rock. There is also a strong representation of devotional or meditative music ala John Michael Talbot as well.
Contemporary Catholic music is not formally supported by the Church so artists have had to pretty much make it on their own with few resources. Growth has been slow but steady and I would say that 2006 has been a banner year for Catholic music. In 2006, Ceili Rain broke into the CCM charts at #14 with their single, "Kneeling." Also in November of 2006, a 2-CD compilation, Catholic Music 2007 was released and has been selling briskly.
Sean Clive, an unknown artist, won the grand prize in the Songdoor Songwriting Competition with his song, "Amazed." This contest did not just feature CCM but all genres and was blind judged by some of the best in Nashville. This is a major achievement for Catholic music.
The pioneer Catholic internet radio station, Catholicjukebox.com (not to be confused with EWTN's Catholic Jukebox program) run by George Leite has dramatically increased in fidelity, sound and song choices. It also like a real jukebox where people can choose songs they'd like to hear, and the songs will cue up in just a few moments.
And GrapeVine, normally an online magazine, has come out with its first print issue courtesy of Lulu.com so that Catholic music for the first time, is represented in book form.
The Catholic Music Network at catholcimusicnetwork.com is the largest distributor of Catholic music on the web. HeartBeat Records distributes online and gets CDs into bookstores around the world.
These are just some of the many things going on in this underground movement. The artists and those who support them are totally dedicated to spreading the Gospel through music. It's a 24/7 job even as many of them hold down day jobs (myself included). The quality of the music has dramatically increased over the years.
Check out all these various avenues and see what Catholic music has to offer. There should be something for every taste.
p.s. as an artist myself I write Catholic-themed music because the Catholic church offers a unique perspective on Christianity, most especially with the Eucharist and with Mary and the saints. I do it because I love the church, love my faith and think about it all the time. It's all I want to write about. Some could say that makes me narrow but what I love about Catholic music is that when I drift away from the Lord, it pulls me back closer to Him.
And there are many more like me out there who are very motivated to write songs about their Catholic faith. Catholicism is so deep, rich and full - we can't even begin to write about what it really is.
James,
We actually agree on many things here--though I do find CCM spiritually profitable. :) You are right in that Christian Music has a tendency to become an enclave--which is why I have my reservations about forcing distinctions on artistic endeavors, labelling then as "Christian."
I think where CCM has the most profiund affect is on seekers who have actually made a few steps toward the Church. They might be attending a concert, or an evangelistic outreach event, and that's where this music strikes a chord. Their heart and mind have already been prepared a little for reception of the gospel. And such music often continues that preparation.
Susan,
Thanks for adding your voice and experience to this thread. And thanks for the great information. Ceili Rain and Matt Maher are about the only two Catholic composers I know who have made a transition outside the Catholic contemporary musical world.
My experience of most of contemporary Catholic music is that it seems under-produced (with a great deal of reverb in the vocals). Whenever I listen to Backstage on EWTN, for example, the production values of Catholic music are pretty clear.
I don't know how to put my finger on it exactly, but there are characterstics of Catholic music that identifies it as such (outside of the themes and theology). It is often easy to hear a piece of music and know that it is made by a Catholic artist.
I do have tremendous respect for artists laboring toward the creation of music with Catholic themes, and I'm aware of some of the sites that you highlighted in your post, but I think that we still have a long way to go to present a professional (in quality and marketing) face to the world.
Publishers like Spirit & Song are trying to cover that ground and they are, to a certain extent, successful, but we seem to be about a generation behind our protestant brothers and sisters. There are tremendous resources available within the Church, but like many initiatives, these resources do not seem to be engaged.
I want to thank you for your willingness to offer your gifts in this endeavor. I'm not trying to simply "put down" catholic attempts at contemporary music, but I am trying to highlight an issue in a way that may help spur conversation and action.
Susan,
Although I mentioned it before, I think that marketing is one of the two areas where Catholic contemporary music falls down. I just went to Catholicjukebox.com and after trying to listen to sample songs for about 20 groups, I could only get about 11 to play. The other 9 either took too long to load or came up with an error message.
I'm impressed by the general presentation of Catholic Jukebox, but the user experience is a little problematic. Now, the issue may lie on the artists' websites; they may not be providing fresh links. However, a portal like CJ is one of the best ways that these artists can have their work introduced to new people. The CJ staff and the artists should work to keep all links working.
I also browsed through GVonline. Congrats on getting your first issue in print. As someone who ran a company that created and sold magazines, that's quite an accomplishment.
If you ever need assistance on the editing front, please let me know. I've worked as a professional editor and would love to help you out if you are ever in need of it.
God bless you on your continued efforts!
Hi Keith,
I'm the guy behind CatholicJukebox.com, and I have to add an AMEN.
CJ is a one man operation, but there is no reason why artists can't keep their links up to date on my site. Preach it brother, because Lord knows I try. I'm rewriting a big piece of that part of the site, and we'll use the Catholic Jukebox Radio more for people to hear artists they are interested in, with our new request system.
And you're not going to find anyone who's done more for the publicity of Catholic music than Susan, so it's awesome to read her feedback, she knows her stuff.
Quality is an issue that we have been screaming for, for a number of years. People like Bob Halligan , Joe Hand, and Dave Smith are the up and coming producers (although none of them are new to the game) who are demanding quality from the artists they work with. Bands like Cheer Up Charlie and Friday Mourning produced CDs that can stand up with any CCM artist. One unfortunate is that Friday Mourning didn't get the backing they should have, and recently broke up.
As for CCM, I love much of it myself. Much of what I do when it comes to Catholic music is to scream "us too". CJ started when Catholics were told by many of the top CCM radio stations 'Catholics need not apply'. CCM realized that you can reach a persons heart when you get them to sing along with the music. P&W music is huge for good reason. Some of the lyrics may be theologically weak, but when a teen is alone in the car and starts singing to themselves "Lord I lift Your name on high", they are making a personal connection with their faith. Songs stick with you, and influence you.
I could go on and on. I love Catholic artists, and they drive me crazy at the same time, kind of like my kids are doing to me. :-) Call it like you see it brother, dialog is always good.
George,
I have to say that I'm impressed with both you and Susan for your hard work and your willingness to talk about how to help take catholic contemporary music to the next level.
If I may ask, what concrete steps do artists and publishers need to take in order to help get us there?
What are the critical marketing tactics that are missing? How can we turn on our young people to catholic artists?
One thing that would help is for folks to stop dissing' the music because it is not suitable for worship. I read some nasty stuff about Fr. Stan Fortuna's music because he does rap. If I had kids I would think I died and went to heaven if they were listening to Fr. Fortuna's rap rather than secular rap. That is the real value of Christian music -- its feel good holistic music because it is wholesome. It doesn't have to contain all the theology of 2000 years of Catholicism in one song. Just a little piece can be beautiful and moving and uplifting.
Personally, I love listening to good Contemporary Catholic music on long car trips. I wish the selections were larger. I often end up listening to Christian P and W stations when I've exhausted the CD's. I also find it good background music in my house as I am doing chores. What a great way to lift your mind to God while doing mundane things. Great way to start learning how to pray-- be in dialogue with God -- always and everywhere.
I think it's really about quality at this point, both in writing and in recording. I love Ryan Meyers take on writing songs, 'write a lot, and edit even more'. More artists need to work on their writing skills.
The second part of that is recording. We're not "competing" with CCM, but with all media. There was a time in late 90's early 2k that I would receive CDs each week from bands who thought they would be the next big thing, and the CD was recorded in their basement, and the CD was burned on their PC.
Technology makes it possible for anyone to record, but it doesn't mean that everyone is ready for the national stage. Playing for the 10 kids in your lifeteen group is nothing to raise your nose at. That is an important ministry. We each need to really pray about where God has called us.
My third piece would be, artists need to get out and play. Some of my favorites like Ryan Meyers or Sarah Bauer are road warriors. Get out there and preach the gospel at all times.
Fourth thing they should be doing is working together more. This isn't a competition. Ryan, Nick Alexander, the guys from Popple, Rise, Seven Sorrows, the sound man for JMT, Susan, and a bunch of others all hang out on the CatholicJukebox.com forum sharing ideas, helping edit each others songs and getting advice from each other. Not only do they share there, but then they also gigs and spread the word.
RAP - I love Point 5 Covenant, PhatMass, The Apologist, along with Fr. Stan. My podcast Catholic Rockers is about just what you were saying, there is great music in many different genres. There are definite times I need music that gets my blood pumping, and lifts my soul at the same time.
Lindsy Morton is no doubt an extremely gifted Christian Music artist by the grace of Jesus Christ. Right now she is in the midst of an amazing schedule.
February 9 -11 women's retreat Glasgow Scotland
Sunday February 11 evening service Calvary Chapel Motherwell, Glasgow Scotland
Monday February 12 women's tea Glasgow Scotland
February 14 - 16 Inverness Scotland
Sunday February 18 worship services Calvary Chapel Amsterdam, Amsterdam Netherlands
I received a message today telling me about the women's retreat in Glasgow Scotland. I was told that the there was an enormous hunger for Jesus and the worship was so loud that Lindsy had to move away from the mic!
Lindsy Morton just released her new CD entitled My Umbrella featuring the song Highly Favored One. I know that "Highly Favored One" will be one of the highly favored christian songs of all time. I will never forget the day Lindsy Morton performed "Highly Favored One" in Las Vegas, Nevada at Calvary Chapel Spring Valley. I remember sitting there watching her play the piano and sing this perfect song. I was in awe the entire song. I could fill the meaning of every word and my spirit was touched in Spirit. It was a true blessing to be there at that moment and hear Lindsy Morton perform this perfect Christian song live. Lindsy Morton does have a new website coming very soon so make sure you save her site to your favorites and check back often.
www.lindsymorton.com
Glory to GOD,
Kerry Dale Hancock Jr
messenger in CHRIST
George,
Thanks for tossing out some ideas on needed next steps. Whenever I converse with others about the necessity for the highest quality in ministry, the reaction always seems to be one of shock. As if one shouldn't demand so much of folks who are nice enough to give of their time for ministry.
How does that translate into the business and production end of catholic recording? Do you think that some artists "get a pass" simply for showing up? How can we help cultivate a better selection process that demands higher and higher quality?
I totally agree with your statement that current catholic artists must compete with all modern media, not just the ones in CCM.
I would, again, add the necessity of solid marketing and PR plans for up and coming artists. The bottom line is, I believe, that publishers need to invest resources into these young artists and support them on a professional and spiritual level. It makes no sense to me, for example, that when it comes to Catholic book publishing, we're happy if a book sells 5,000 copies, while Purpose Driven Life is selling millions of copies per year.
There is also no excuse for a Contemporary Catholic Recording Artist to have a web presence that still looks like it was built in 1997. And we do these artists no favor by just letting such things pass by without remark.
Finally, I think we need a revolution in evangelization events in the Church. World Youth Day is a powerful event that dwarfs the various music festivals and extended concerts of our protestant brothers and sisters (Passion, One Day, etc) by orders of magnitude. If we attempted to hold more "smaller" events every year, Matt Maher wouldn't have to "graduate" out of the Catholic "ghetto" to play at the Passion Tour.
Don't get me wrong, I think Matt is ferociously gifted, and God is using him in amazing ways, but there should be particularly Catholic venues where tens of thousands of folks come together for worship, teaching, and liturgy on a regular basis.
Anyway, y'all have my brain percolating and my heart racing. I don't think I'm going to get to bed tonight!
Kerry Dale,
Thank you for the link and the info about Lindsay!
Keith
Keith,
You've made my day! Great to have you on board.
Since there isn't any money right now to do the marketing that needs to be done, it's up to individuals right now to pitch in and help. This is the big reason why I put GrapeVine out in print. It gives people a tool (and a professional looking one too) to take out and show people. Our main problem is hardly anyone knows we exist! I put out the challenge to my mailing list to buy this issue and take around to show people.
One person can only do so much. But a bunch of ones can do a lot!
We, as the artist community MUST come together and work as a GROUP to promote Catholic music as a WHOLE. I'm been on this band wagon for years now and am finally seeing some results. We need a lot more people in the support end. Everyone wants to be a performer but not everyone is gifted that way. We desperately need people to do PR, to be booking agents, to help artists with website development, print materials and such.
We also need to stop working outside the Church and start working WITH the church. Confirmation retreats and liturgies are not nearly as glamorous as concerts but you reach WAY more people that way. The Catholic Church is a whole different culture from the Protestant Church and the CCM community. Catholics look at music in a different way. We need to better adapt to those ways. It requires truly humbling ourselves and perhaps conforming ourselves somewhat to what those in charge want. But it doesn't mean we have to skimp on quality! AMEN to you Keith for saying what is almost never said in the community - people need to step up and BE GOOD, the best they can be. And you can't do that in a vacuum.
Thanks for this discussion!
Hi all...
Just have a question to throw out there. Right now, I think it is safe to say there are 1 billion Catholics in the world. Keeping this in mind, if one of these Catholics were to be that life-transformative artist/musician/songwriter that would be remembered fondly as someone who used his/her musical talents for the better benefit for Catholics everywhere... how would you know about this artist?
Would we hear such an artist on secular radio? Not a chance. Secular radio today is a much different beast than what it was even ten years ago. It is increasingly hard for any artist to break thru the maudlin repetition of a station's enormous backlog. Even musical giants have had to resort to "Selling out" to television commercials to get their new song played.
Would you hear the song on Christian radio? Hopefully, but not likely. There is still an anti-Catholic sentiment in mainstream Christian radio--and it's not necessarily ill-intended. A Christian radio station searches long and hard for songs that do not cause a listener to change stations--which a non-Catholic would most likely do if a song that was pro-Mary or pro-Transubstantiation came on. There has been _some_ crossover, but these artists have most likely toned down their unique Catholicity.
Would you hear the song on Catholic radio? How many Catholic radio stations that play only music exist? How many of these stations have to exist to reach some sort of tipping point?
Would you hear the song on EWTN? EWTN, mind you, while being a tremendous blessing, is not on 24/7 on all cable stations in the country. My EWTN channels switch to community access during the evening hours, the time I usually watch television. Even EWTN doesn't have a strong musical bent--Backstage is a single half-hour show, and Life on the Rock (which I've been on) is an hour long show that only has, at most, some twenty minutes of music-time. These shows do not repeat on a consistent basis--like old-school MTV used to. A phenomenally proficient and gifted artist will most likely be forgotten about by the next week, without repetition.
Would you hear the song in a Catholic concert? Kinda, if you're lucky. But even then, a single concert in your neck of the woods is not strong enough a lure for there to be a tipping point reached en masse. The only exception to this is the World Youth Days, which is once every three years, and to its credit, acheived a tipping point of mass introduction to a new Catholic-writ song--(that would be "We Are One Body" from Denver, '93, and no song has hit this powerfully since then).
Would you hear such a tremendous song at liturgy? (Let's assume for a moment that this one particular powerful song by tremendous Catholic musician is entirely liturgically appropriate). Well, yes and no. Yes, you could most definitely hear it, but right now there is a movement underfoot that undercuts any positive artistic contribution from modern day Catholic musicians. It happened the moment "Why Catholics Can't Sing" was published. For all of the arguments that book wagered, the most damaging indictment was its call to disavow all modern music altogther, and to rely solely upon the ancient hymns--which, upon close reading of the book, actually contradicted its opening chapter).
Which is a shame, especially now, since it is clear that orthodox, faithful, Catholic artists are marginalized (by secular radio, Christian radio, Catholic Talk Radio, and starchly conservative Catholics), and yet there has been a resurgence of ancient hymns on Christian radio and in praise and worship. Folks like Chris Tomlin (who gave Catholic Matt Maher his big break) and Louie Giglio have single-handedly revived ancient hymns thru their contributions of taking an older hymn, keeping its integrity, and yet making the song more palatable for modern tastes. Even in the case of Tomlin's "My Chains Are Gone (Amazing Grace)" he actually _improved_ upon the standard hymn (as it's mostly known today), by unearthing and re-introducing a rare fourth verse that never needed to be cut.
So, in light of this, if you were to hear of the music out there, where would you hear it? And don't ever assume that just because you never heard it, it is subpar--the most critically acclaimed album of 2005 was by a Christian musician, Sufjan Stevens, with his "Illinoise" album. It may be that the most acclaimed album of 2007 will be The Arcade Fire's "Neon Bible"--which I've yet to hear--that was recorded in a church, with some songs implementing a full orchestra and organ.
Assuming the Catholic artistry IS there, it is clear that the other pieces have yet to be in place to push the music out there. The only exception is the last way which I hadn't mentioned--the Internet. For a phenomenal Catholic song to reach critical mass, it deserves a LOT MORE support from the Catholic Community. Will the Catholic Community be willing and able to step up and help such a song reach the masses (pun intended)?
Keith,
A real marketing and PR plan? That's what I need. No, I don't think there are many in the Catholic music world who have that. I only know of a couple publicists in Catholic music, and they represent only a handful of artists. But there'ss a huge question of funding. CCM is a multi-billion dollar industry. "Big" name Catholic artists sell a few thousand CDs. You hit the nail on the head about Catholic books. Catholic music is in the same boat.
I love your website comment too. A lot of them look like they used a 1995 MS-Frontpage template. Mine's not perfect by any means, you found a lot of flaws poking around, but I do try to keep mine looking post-y2k. That's an inexpensive fix that many artists can do.
I don't think anyone has the "star power" to get a pass for just showing up too. There are so few oppertunities for people to play in bigger gigs, word travels fast if you don't give it your all. I saw a LOT of live Catholic bands last year, and the names people wanted to see like Cheer Up Charlie, Friday Mourning and Last Day put it all out there on the stage.
SO? Be it books or music, what kind of PR effort do you think is needed? What avenues should be used?
Firstly I am wondering, where the idea came from that Christian music must break into the secular in order to achieve it's purpose? I am someone who gave up a successful secular music career in order to concentrate exclusively on music for Catholic teens! The pastor of my parish is well known around Chicago for his social action and activism, but does that mean the other 400+ priests of Chicago are not fulfilling their purpose because they are known only to their own parishioners?
When I was first converted to Christ (and I hope I continue to be converted to Christ each day!), I made a record about my newfound faith and it went Top 20 in my homeland of Great Britain. I was quickly approached by Word Records (who I had never heard of), about making a Christian album. I couldn't see the point when I was already selling hundreds of thousands of records! Then I started listening to Christian music and it ministered to me, so I knew it could minister to others.
I discovered that there is indeed praise and worship, and CCM (which might be considered Christian entertainment), or even crossover in the case of Switchfoot or Relient K. But there is another category too, which might be called teaching or maybe "ministering" music, which is specifically for those who have made a decision for Christ. This later category is what I decided to dedicate my later life to, since it is something not provided anywhere else.
I can tell you from personal experience that the greatest hits of a mainstream artist are often not their best work, but may be that which is most superficial or trivial. Equally the merits (or lack of), in our Catholic equivalent of praise and worship (Liturgical music), have been listed above. There is a need for something else which is neither of those things. You may have kids, I do not, but at the many Catholic youth rallies I do, you want your kids singing, listening to, and dancing to, positive Christian/Catholic music don't you? You probably don't want them shaking their booty to Top 100 hits, no matter how well produced!
My friend Chris Padgett, who previously had CCM hits with Scarecrow & Tinmen, recently lamented lack of a budget for Catholic albums, and I reminded him that our purpose is something higher than just the music. His former bandmates in Cheer Up Charlie are also looking for funds to record a new CD right now, but at the same time, they barely have any dates on their calendar because Catholics cannot afford to fly 5 band members around the country!
Myself, for many years I recorded in top studios like Abbey Road, with some of the world's top producers. Since then I have made my albums on my own computer, and generally they sound better than those records of years ago! Many younger Christian/Catholic artists have come to me over the years saying they want to go into the secular music world and tell people about Christ. I always tell them that world will evangelize them before they ever get to evangelize anyone else! But of course God intends some people to minister to the world, and some to minister to His Church. Don't put down the latter or imagine it is somehow more noble to be famous and popular - our Savior was born in a cave and died as a criminal!
testing
I've enjoyed reading this discussion so far, and I'd like to throw in my $0.02.
First a quick background. I'm an Electrical Engineer by trade (several of us independent Catholic songwriters are, by the way). I have a wife and small children. I'll write a song here and there when I can. I'm open to God using me in a larger way, but nothing's happening right now, so I keep things simple.
I approach problems in a logical way. I look at the market and ask myself, what do we ask Catholics have that CCM does not? Whatever "it" is, that's our opportunity. IMHO, we will never be successful in playing catchup with CCM.
What we have is the Eucharist. That's what makes us different. People will buy the music that they were hearing when they have a life-changing God-moment. For generic Christians, that moment probably occured at a concert or rally, so they buy that band's music. For Catholics, what better place to experience such a moment than before the Blessed Sacrament in Adoration? If they hear music by Catholic artists, they will buy the music to re-live the experience.
There are several organizations doing these Adoration+Concert events... Steubenville (Bob Rice), Life Teen / XLT (Matt Maher), Christ Music (Martin Doman), Lift (Jon Niven). But what music are they primarily playing? CCM. We're shooting ourselves in the foot.
The momentum behind CCM is tremendous. I don't know how to turn the Catholic ship around. I'm just going to keep writing songs as I feel led and keep listening for what God wants me to do.
Honestly, it is frustrating.
-paul
George wrote:
SO? Be it books or music, what kind of PR effort do you think is needed? What avenues should be used?
Well, I don't have the time to brainstorm a comprehensive marketing plan, but I'll throw out some ideas.
And, unfortunately, the bottom line is that publishers (whether of books or music) need to support their artists by spending time, talent, and treasure--partcularly when it comes to marketing. It boggles my mind that anyone would release a product that would appeal to millions of people without spending some money. And I'm not talking about million-dollar budgets here either. But even grassroots marketing costs some money to do well.
If I were budgeting a release, I'd include a marketing/pr/advertising budget that was at least 15% of forecasted revenue. And if that budget were too small to accomplish much, I'd find a way to "gang" the marketing of several releases together to make something happen.
And if I publisher/artist doesn't have the cash flow available to support a release, then they should go through a serious prayerful discernment about whether or not they should actually start (or continue) their endeavor. Now, I'm not saying that if you don't have money to blow on your ministry, you shouldn't do it....Lord knows that most Catholic ministries would never have started if that were the cas.
However, I am saying that you shouldn't jump into something without thinking and praying about your decisions, and without a committment to good stewardship of your endeavor. The notion that solid principles of management don't (or shouldn't) apply to non-profit work or ministry is absolutely ludicrous to me.
At some point, I plan on writing a book on ministry and a book about spirituality. Knowing what I know about Catholic publishing, and with my own publishing background,I plan on self-publishing and promoting. That might mean finding "investors" or leveraging some other part of my financial portfolio to put actual dollars into marketing.
As far as marketing ideas for books and musical artists, I was thinking about the following:
1. Analyze what market demographic your music is likely to appeal to and then identify some print media oulets where you could advertise. If you're music is rockin', for example, you might not want to inquire about placing an ad in First Things. However, a release that is a little more contemplative might actually fit the readers of America or Commonwel or Our Sunday Visitor for example.
And no matter what kind of advertising that you do (print or new media), you need to place the ad at least three times or, even better, make three distinct bu thematically branded ads for ech month.
2. Web marketing is some of the easiest marketing to do. We've talked about the problems with many artists' web presence, but a solid, modern attractive design that eaily lets a "surfer" listen to music clips is absolutely critical.
Somewhere on the site there should be a opportunity for fans and listeners to communicate with the band--forums, comment boxes, etc.
I just took a look at riday Mouning's site, for eample, and I think that it is one of the best sites I've seen for Ctholic Recording Artists. Sharmane (over at www.sharmane.com) also has a great looking site. By the way, 'm listening to Friday Mourning's music on MySpace and the fact that this group didn't receive the support they needed to continue on is mind boggling.
3. Parish-level Marketing
It seems to me that the pre-eminent infrastructure for marketing within the Church is at the parish level, since this is where most Catholics gather week after week. So, high-quality marketing collateral (flyers, brochures, booklets, etc) designed to appeal to youth ministers, young adult ministry coordinators, faith formation directors who could then pass them on to their constituents would b ideal.
Since most of these folks that I know are underpaid and overworked, you could even create a marketing piece that also functions as a time saver. If I were a book publisher wanting to promote a new release, I might create a lesson-plan or pre-planned youth group event (one that the Youth Minister could implement right from the matrial I sent them) that utilized information or themes/topics from the book I was promoting. Somewhere in that piece you pt an ad or "call to action" to that youth minister to but the book. They've already seen how useful the info in the book was . . .
You could also do the same thing with musical artists, placing a single trackon a CD included with the pre-planned event, or giving a code where they could download the song online for use in the event.
2a. Bulletin Stuffers
Identifying some of the large parishes in each diocese and creating something that promotes your product and asking that these be included in the bulletin could be an approach--particularly if the marketing material presents information in a way that makes it useful for parishioners.
This idea is a little more time-intensive, as you'd need to somehow communicate with someone at the parish, but I believe that this could be a very fruitful use of time if done correctly.
3. Deanery-level and diocesan-level events
If I were a publisher of music with artists I wanted to promote, I'd try and pair these artists with solid speakers/evangelists and create a traveling "mini event" (part concert, part teaching, part prayer service) that would try to bring to deaneries and/or diocese. It is likely that parishes can group together their resources and afford the event better.
4. Email advertising
Artist websites should have a place where listeners can sign p to receive a virtual newsletter with information on upcoming events, new releases, etcetera.
Anway, these are just a few ideas off the top of my head. If I had some time to really think and pick the brain of folks who have actual industry experience, we could generate more ideas.
Maybe publishers are doing these things now, but I've pretty much never seen it--particularly for recording artists.
Okay...I misnumbered my ideas in my last post...but I was buning with creativity....
mea culpa! :)
Wow, this thread's seen some life!
I'm glad to see some of the Catholic artists or music providers weigh in. I think there are a number of us who would enjoy these artists' work, but who don't know where to get the info on them. For example, I've got the Apologist's mini-album, followed the whole PhatMass project, have Magirescu's album, Crispin's two (which is the one group I think that actually breaks into the higher category of showing some musicality) and the various music CDs the Brotherhood of Hope have put out recently. So I think I'm more informed than some, but even I can't say I know where to turn for this music. So I am glad to learn of Grape Vine.
And I do agree with Keith a bit. With respect to the artists, I do find way too much use of reverb. As someone who grew up on jazz, blues, country and folk, I certainly have my taste bias, but the production values for many of the CDs are not up there as I think they should be. But I have to think that improves, particularly as it becomes easier to produce good recordings in home studios.
But Nick said something that I think is really important. And that's the backlash against contemporary music that has been created by what I might dub the Adoramus movement. I love chant. Have dozens of recordings of various chant, first fell back in love with the liturgy at a parish that had a boys choir and a sung mass. So I share much of what this movement wants. But like the Tridentine movement, where some went off the deep end and concluded that nothing but the Tridentine mass was valid, I fear some have started to do the same thing with music.
Sal Solo wrote:
Firstly I am wondering, where the idea came from that Christian music must break into the secular in order to achieve it's purpose? I am someone who gave up a successful secular music career in order to concentrate exclusively on music for Catholic teens! The pastor of my parish is well known around Chicago for his social action and activism, but does that mean the other 400+ priests of Chicago are not fulfilling their purpose because they are known only to their own parishioners?
Sal,
First off, welcome to the blog! And thanks for your response to God's call!
I think that we are very much on the same page with a lot of what you shared.
In answer to your question about "where the idea came from that Christian Music must break into the mainstream to fulfill it's purpose," it came, in some sense, from God Himself through the instrumentality of the Church.
We are called as Christians to bring Christ to every man, woman, and child on earth, and to evangelize not just individuals, but social structures and cultures as well. In this sense, lay men and women (in particular) are called to bring Christ into every endeavor and human situation.
Thus, we are called to bring what we have received (the truth, beauty, and goodness of God) into music (particularly secular music).
This is why I have a problem with raising categories like "Christian music." There is, ultimately, just music, and lay Catholic musicians are called to bring Christ into theirmusic--whatever idiom or genre that might be.
Now, that doesn't mean that music from Catholic artists must explicitly reference Christ, but they should somehow communicate the truth, beauty, and goodness of God in some way.
So, to fulfill the purpose that Christ has called lay musical artists to does mean, in some way, breaking through into secular music.
However, you rightly identify what you call teaching music. That is, music that is created to evangelize, nourish, and sustain the Christian community. Ministering and serving within the Christian community is ordinarily done by those who hold the Office of the Ordained (Bishops, Priests, Deacons). Just like lay men and women are given responsibility for the mission of the Church in the world, the ordained are given responsibility for the teaching, sanctification, and governance of the People of God (ministry within the Christian community).
Now, the ordaind enlist the help of lay men and women in that endeavor (catechists, music ministers, pastoral associates, etc), and teaching music certainly falls into that category. It sounds like you have answered a very strong call to work within the Christian community--and gifts like yours are very much needed to do so.
But such a focus (inside the Christian Community) isn't normally the vocation of the majority of lay musical artists. Their focus is out in the world.
Now, I think that when most people use the term Christian Music or Catholic Music, they are referring usually to teaching music, or music that serves the Christian community. That is not, necessarily, how I used the term in my post.
But even so, Catholic music whose focus is on ministering to the community must still maintain standards of artistic quality that are at least as high as that of music in the secular world. And while you, rightly, point out that this ministering music serves a different purpose than secular music, I think that artists an the rest of us catholics who have a vested interest in Catholic Artistry, are right to lament the lack of budget and resources applied to that work.
A lack of budget means that it is harder for the rihness and the grace of "ministering" music to reach the people who are hungering for it, who need some help in deepening their spiritual life.
I'm becoming more and more convinced that a part of the Catholic lack of effectiveness in ministry (not living up to the potential of all the gifts God has given us) is due to the fact that we don't apply solid standards of discipline and management (ie., principles of Good Stewardship) when we undertake ministries, apostolates, and initiatives (at the istitutional and personal level).
I'm absolutely amazed at the talent, artistry, production values, and depth of bands like Friday Mourning and Cheer Up Charlie, and I think that it is an absolute travesty that someone who is fairly familiar with Catholic music (me) has never actually heard of these groups until now!
Sal, thank you again for your willingness to follow Christ's call, for your service and ministry to the Church, and for sharing your ideas with us here. I am always humbled by the depth of experience and passion that I encounter in conversations with Catholics across the world.
I will keep your ministry in my prayers.
Keith,
You got me really curious so I looked up your profile. Ah, you are a man after my own heart - Star Trek, Lord of the Rings . . . but no Harry Potter? :-) Your background in marketing really shows in this discussion. How I wish we could get you all on fire about Catholic music and help us out with exposing it to the world!
Your comment about marketing on the parish level really struck me. I've never felt that it was enough to market on the Web. In fact, the very demographic that my particular style of music appeals to are not real web users (people in my age range (mid to late 40s) and older) so aggressive marketing on the web only reaches a few of the people I need to reach!
One of the problems with Catholic music has been a lack of presence in the 'real' world as opposed to the 'viritual' world. While the Web has made great strides and is more and more becoming the first source for news and information, it's still not THE source that makes one legitimate. We're not there yet. As of today, you are not really legitimate unless you are published somewhere, whether it be in a book, newspaper or magazine. You have to appear on TV, but on network TV or a truly major cable station like VH1. This is why it was so important to me that GrapeVine be published. And thank the Lord for Lulu.com because otherwise it would not be possible.
Even in my own immediate family, having the magazine published made it more legit! When people see it, Catholic music suddenly becomes something that's real and interesting.
I for one plan to present a copy to our bishop in the Worcester, MA diocese to ask for his blessing. And I plan to show a copy to the youth ministry director as well. And the youth minister of our own parish. At nearly $11 per copy (the downside of using Lulu), it's going to be one copy at a time.
Nick's post especially really brought home how much is working against us as we try to let people know about this music. There are tremendous obstacles facing us. Yet, here are all these people working zealously out of love for Christ and His Church, making music with little resources and very little guidance or support (although it is getting better). I've been involved with Catholic music for over 10 years on the web and there has been a lot of growth. God must want this or He wouldn't keep raising up people who wish to do this most impossible of jobs.
I belong to CAM, the Catholic Association of Musicians, founded by John Michael Talbot. Every year, CAM has its annual conference/retreat at the Little Portion Retreat Center, tucked away in the beautiful Ozarks. Last year I was finally able to go. What a difference it made being with other people who felt about this as I do, who have this burning in their souls over the spreading of the Gospel through music! Those of us involved with Catholic music face many of our own personal obstacles: family members who look at us like we have 3 heads, friends who don't get it, priests and parishes who don't value what we do - and you get to the point where you begin to doubt it and think you're crazy too. Getting together with others and realizing we're in this together makes SUCH a HUGE difference. I felt a tremendous affirmation of my call to run GrapeVine from that experience.
I was interested too in your comment about 'teaching music.' One thing that is very clear to many of us is that evangelization within our own Church is very much needed. There may be 1 billion Catholics but there are so many who live the faith like a family tradition, and compartmentalize it into Sundays or even just Christmas and Easter, and then it comes up for weddings and funerals. There may be some sense of living the Gospel message in how people treat each other, but when it comes to a living, breathing moment-to-moment faith, most Catholics just don't experience that. The mass is so taken for granted and many don't even believe the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ!
Music can help here. It won't do it by itself (thus your idea of teaming up with speakers - excellent, excellent idea) but music does have a way of penetrating to the heart in a way that mere words often can't. However, it won't do that if the quality isn't there, so you are certainly right about that, and the artist community is addressing that more and more.
More of us need to work together. We need bodies! There are too few of us willing to do whatever it takes to get the word out there. All those suggestions you gave are terrific but they all involve people helping out and mucho money. It can't be done if more people don't step up and help out.
We must be patient and submit to God's timing on this. He has a greater plan and a greater vision and we must follow that and leave our own egos behind.
By way of introduction, I manage the aforementioned band, Last Day. I weigh in with a little trepidation to this discussion but there are just a couple of points I would like to address.
Keith wrote,
We are called as Christians to bring Christ to every man, woman, and child on earth, and to evangelize not just individuals, but social structures and cultures as well. In this sense, lay men and women (in particular) are called to bring Christ into every endeavor and human situation.
Thus, we are called to bring what we have received (the truth, beauty, and goodness of God) into music (particularly secular music).
This is why I have a problem with raising categories like "Christian music." There is, ultimately, just music, and lay Catholic musicians are called to bring Christ into their music--whatever idiom or genre that might be.
There is an excellent article in this month’s CCM http://www.ccmmagazine.com/features/3652.aspx
Artist’s in the Mainstream.
I have engaged in many discussions about Catholic artist vs Christian artist vs secular artist. I think this article does a really fine job of addressing this point, take a few moments to read it. It may expand your thoughts on the subject a bit or possibly reinforce some of the ideas you already have. I admit it expanded my horizons a bit.
The other point I would like to mention is the lamenting of the lack of production and marketing in Catholic music. Last Day was blessed to be included in Catholic Music 2007 that Susan referenced in one of her posts. When you listen to this CD or other Catholic artist’s music, there is a big range in quality. However I venture to say that all those artists are doing the very best that they can with the resources they have available to them. Last Day consists of young guys still in school who each time they produce a CD (they just started working on their 3rd CD) raise their own bar to try and produce a higher quality product. Unfortunately, money is the name of the game when it comes to production and marketing and the lack of it does have a profound effect.
George and Susan both sacrifice mightily to promote Catholic music, they truly are Catholic music warriors. Both of them have shared many excellent points in this discussion. And Susan is right
More of us need to work together. We need bodies! There are too few of us willing to do whatever it takes to get the word out there. All those suggestions you gave are terrific but they all involve people helping out and mucho money. It can't be done if more people don't step up and help out.
This discussion may or may not spur any real action. And I am admittedly distressed over Keith’s comment
I'm absolutely amazed at the talent, artistry, production values, and depth of bands like Friday Mourning and Cheer Up Charlie, and I think that it is an absolute travesty that someone who is fairly familiar with Catholic music (me) has never actually heard of these groups until now!
It tells me how very, very far we still have to go for Catholic artists to have any name recognition at all. However, at least this is one more forum where the topic of Catholic music is being addressed and by the grace of God may it open at least a few more people’s eyes.
Blessings,
Kathy
www.lastdayonline.com
www.myspace.com/lastdayband
I'll try to weigh in more later (those that know me know I have more than plenty to say about the subject) but for the waking hours of my daughter's day today (my wife is in Russia for 10 days, so we're bacheing it) I'll get quick to the point:
It's worth noting that what's being compared here is _independent_ (even if published) Catholic artists and _signed_ Christian and secular artists. If the comparison was moved to comparing indies in all arenas, you'd find discrepancies, but not such glaring ones, especially in terms of songwriting and production value. The fact remains that no company or person has invested seriously in any contemporary Catholic artist or band (although this may change in the very near future), mostly for the reason that there hasn't been any artist or band that was on a major label level in all accounts. We have some artists, like myself, that are gifted in songwriting and musicianship, but will never have the vocal abilities to be on a major label. There are others with incredible vocal abilities that haven't developed songwriting or stage presence. Still others excel in their live performance, but can't manage a group of people well enough to hold a band together. These artists will find a niche of fans that look past their particular lackings because they appreciate their strengths so much. Personally, I'll listen to a great songwriter who can't sing, but the general public won't, and that guy will never make it "big". This is OK, (suggested reading: The Long Tail, Google it), as the scape of the music industry is changing. BUT, the production value for an independent project will never match that of a major label one. The marketing of an independent project will never come close to matching that of a major label one. Unless you can appeal to the mass market, you can't afford to market to it. It's too expensive, and even a significant number of projects each year from the majors fail to reach the black. Ask Chris and Brad (from Scarecrow and Tinmen) about their experiences with the major labels.
Like I said, more later. The young'n is pulling on my sleeve for a game of Boggle Jr. Gotta learn those words early if she's going to take my place as the family wordsmith!
Susan wrote:
You got me really curious so I looked up your profile. Ah, you are a man after my own heart - Star Trek, Lord of the Rings . . . but no Harry Potter? :-)
You nailed me...I'm a geek at heart. By the way, I love the Harry Potter movies, but in terms of writing "craft," the books leave much to be desired.
You wrote:
Your background in marketing really shows in this discussion. How I wish we could get you all on fire about Catholic music and help us out with exposing it to the world!
Thank you for the kind words! As far as working toward the noble end of exposing Catholic music to the world, I have my fingers in far too many pies already. :) I would be willing to help edit anything you might need for GrapeVine, however.
I agree with you about actual marketing materials versus purely virtual ones. For some types of products and industries, I'm not sure if print advertising is all that effective, but the cost often serves as a "legitimacy tax." Distributors and retailers have a better sense of your level of professionalism if you advertise in print magazines.
In regards to GrapeVine, I'd be interested in learning more about your business model and your production costs. For example, what was the cost of having the mag printed at a traditional printer? My last position was as a Chief Operating Officer of a Publishing company that created and sold magazines. I might be able to give you a little help on the print side of things for GrapeVine.
In regards to resources (like money) and people getting involved, you're right. There certainly is a need. We are caught in a vicious cycle. There is a lack of intentional disciples in the Church who are formed and equipped, and who have a sense of their own mission. In order to help spread the Word and help to nurture those disciples, we need a rash of intentional disiples.
At some point, we just have to bite the bullet and start moving forward staying true to the principles of good stewardship, holding a committment to ministry, orthodox theology, and the sacraments of the Church.
I think there are a number of folks whom God is calling specifically to the work that you have been doing in evangelizing through music, but they either don't know that such a ministry exists or they have reservations about lendng their secular talents and competence to an endeavor that is not necessarily always of the highest quality.
Once we can present the reality that high-quality musical artistry and a committment to excellence in Christ are the hallmarks of "Catholic" music, more people might be open to the call.
CK,
Thanks fo that link to the article. I would say that it confirms a lot of what I wrote about earlier. One of the problems with creating or sustaining artificial categries, like CCM, is that it tends to walls you off from the world (where we, as lay men and women, are called to minister).
It also tends to discourage folks within the enclave from venturing outside of it. I can't tell you how often I hear Christians say that they just won't listen to anything else except CCM. We are not called to hide behind our Church walls, Christ commanded the apostles, and He commands us, to "Go out into the Deep," not coast along the shore.
It's hard to be leaven when you don't want to actually enter the dough.
If I may ask, what concrete steps do artists and publishers need to take in order to help get us there?
What are the critical marketing tactics that are missing? How can we turn on our young people to catholic artists?
My turn, my turn! Hi Keith my name is Aly B and I own an artist management company based in Nashville, TN called ALBIE Entertainment. We are a Catholic owned and operated company specializing in PR, Promotions, Partnerships and have a heavy focus on Artist Development. Our roster is small and limited because we are small and limited in personnel but I appreciate all that you have mentioned in terms of marketing and promotion. Our roster is mixed with artists representing a variety of denominations not so much as to have a presence in all markets, but to moreso bridge the gap in a genre that was really started as contemporary music created with the Gospel as the focus. I see 3 major problems with the Catholic music industry (which for all realistic purposes really should be referred to as an "indie-stry" because there are no real Catholic music labels that operate as effectively or efficiently as any professional level label (Christian or Secular) in regards to all the aspects that go into the business. Most Catholic labels are moreso in the business of publishing than in the business to produce, manufacture and retail recorded music.)
In any case...I see the problems as being
1.Education...just not enough Catholic performing artists want to take the time or commit the resources to really learn how to be an effective artist in their respected category in return they are not keeping up with the ever changing trends that keep the interest of young people today.
2.Networking...it just boggles my mind to see so few Catholic artists stepping out to work with their "Christian" based brothers and sisters. Very few go to GMA Week, very few attend the CCM based events, very few will even take the time to set up a MYSPACE page or a Shoutlife page. How can you expect to be embraced if you are not willing to put yourself out there? Yeah your band may not get booked for the Cornerstone Festival but that doesn't mean you shouldn't submit your press kit...you never know unless you take the initiative.
3.Commitment...many artists in Catholic music don't really put their full out commitment into their ministry. Its excuse after excuse after excuse...the resources and opportunities are there-organizations like CAM, the UCMVA, periodicals (online or not) like Grapevine... and not all require remortgaging your house...but if you don't commit to a plan...a plan will NEVER succeed. No matter what industry, no matter what style of music, no matter what denomination you are. It takes time to develop and work through a plan but so many abandon it because it is not in their time...then they are quick to blame others. Staying focused has to become a priority.
Regardless...and Praise God for it...there are always exceptions to the above...and those artists are the ones who generally become "exceptional".
www.myspace.com/albieentertainment
Ryan,
Thank you for your participation in this discussion. I definitely appreciate the indy vs signed label distinction. The questions your post bring up are the follwing:
1. Why don't we have a number of artists with all of the "right stuff" for a solid label?
Could it be that since there is no real "industry" to break into within the Catholic Church, there really isn't that aspiration among the folks who might have all that stuff (perhaps they find their way into the secular musical industry)?
Could it be that we don't have a culture that helps form and develop young artists to help them develop solidly from an artistic and a "spirituality" perspective?
2. How come there isn't a solid "Catholic" label that has as its mission the nurturing, development, and (yes) sales of both "teaching music" artists and artists who write music for the mainstream?
Thanks again for all you do for the Lord! By the way, I love the instrumentation and music from Chasing After Home! It's really cool! And it has some really high production values! Very well done. I think it should stand as an example (along with the work of Matt Maher, Friday Mourning, and Chasing After Charlie!
What a great post and thread of comments! I've got my notepad ready to scribble and save so many ideas, group names, websites, and so forth.
Well, first of all, I confess to being partial to all Christian faith music. I love and collect early gospel music. And I subscribe to gospelcity.com's email blast so I can look for new gospel as it comes out. Elvis of course... (listen to his Miracle of the Rosary). CCN such as Casting Crowns and Jars of Clay... and even into some POD. I collect old LP's such as Hymns by Loretta Lynn, and the Chancel Choir First Baptist church (now I just need to repair my turntable lol.) So I come at you with an "I love it all" viewpoint, from the oldest gospel recordings to the newest artists.
As a music fan here's a few additional suggestions to the GREAT ones listed above. Some starving Catholic music artists should hook up with scriptwriters and get their works as soundtracks, for everything from the big productions to Internet ones. I'd like to see Catholic viewpoints created for media like youtube, with original music as soundtrack. For example, do videos and it can be some real event, like band mates marrying or something lol, with the music as sound track and post it on youtube. How about a series of how "I do believe in the Holy Ghost" video with soundtrack, and post them (why not, the "i don't believes" do it and get wide viewing?) Especially you new, at home, have a second job artists, turn on the cam while you are recording and post a video of your work and witness, and that will promote the music too.
I'd like to see Catholic music be part of itunes and other suppliers as part of their free downloads series.
There's nothing wrong with seeking cross over and people love the forbidden, or rather, in our case, the underdog. Look at POD with Alive. I don't see why Catholic musicians can't compose equally intense music and mention Easter, the Lord, Christmas, or whatever suits the song. I think that the more Christmas and Easter is oppressed by the seculars, the more it will appeal to the rock and roll and other base, if there's good sharp songs and marketing.
These are just a few ideas, and bless your work!
By the way, I forgot to mention that some of the brainstorming and work that Barb Nicolosi is doing for screenwriters, artists, and tech folk within Hollywood are probably directly (or near enough) applicable to what we are talking about here.
I'd like to point your attention to a discussion of her mster plan that we highlighted on ID a few weeks ago. You can get to it by going to this url: http://blog.siena.org/2007/03/mission-hollywood.html
Wow, Susan, George, Ryan, Sal, Allie, etc...all the heavy hitters seem to have congregated here. It seems this topic sprouts up like mushrooms every so often.
I can tend to run on a bit, but it's late and I'll be brief. Many of the complaints are legitimate and the ideas are great regarding labels, marketing and production. The problem here is the audience itself. The "Catholic audience" is very weak. Sometimes I wonder if it exists at all. Marketing efforts are made so much more difficult by this inherent weakness.
By weak I mean that it doesn't exist geographically and it is so diffuse demographically as to be thin and difficult to target. Where a CCM artist is primarily challenged with reaching the CCM fan, difficult enough, Catholics are challenged with creating their audience.
We produce a Catholic music festival, currently in our fifth year. Every year we lose money. Last year we decided to raise the bar on the music and I believe we put on an event which was second to none, music-wise. We had marketed aggressively [including variations of many items Keith suggested], worked in a bare-bones budget and kept ticket prices ridiculously affordable. Our turn out was low, never the less. As I stood at the back of the crowd listening, Kathy from Last Day was standing next to me and asked, "Why aren't there a thousand people here?" Good question. I ask myself that every year. While it's possible we are doing something terribly wrong, I fall back on my earlier conclusion: the Catholic market is weak.
We will labor to build the audience brick by brick, stone by stone over the next generation and there will be no shortcut. Watershed years will continue to come and go, shedding precious little water. Eventually the flood will come, catching many by surprise. Some of us may be gone before it happens.
Aly,
Thanks for your thought on what is needed, and for your professional music marketing perspective!
How do you suppose we can enourage prospective musical artists to committ to learning about their craft?
Lar,
I totally agree that in many ways, the audienc has to be "built." In protestant eveangelical circles, music is one of the focii of worship. Therefore, those with a musica gift and a calling to lead worship are often seen as celebrities within their respective communities. There is a great encouragement and respect for musical worship leaders within the evangelical culture which is not really present within Catholicism.
Although many catholic teens are familiar with some Christian music, the majority of them are not exposed to this genre, and it thereforemakes it more difficult to get Catholic teens interested in going to a festival or event.
I think there is also a lack of quality, comprehensive formation programs for teens at most parishes. For the most part, youth ministry remains underfunded, with youth ministers being far too underpaid and overworked. Many times this means that the only folks who can consider a youth minister position are folks just out of college. This isn't a bad thing necssarily (there are a lot of highly gifted, effective young youth ministers), but it does mean that someone who has more experience with building and sustainingorganizations and dealing with parents (to name a few examples) generally can't consider such a position.
The end resul is that as Catholics, we don't generally have interconnected "networks" of youth ministry that we can market to consistently and who would represent a large number of people predsposed to be interested in music ministry events.
What music festival do you organize each year?
Wow! What a great thread! Thanks for alerting me to this, Susan.
One of the hurdles that we Catholics face that make it harder for a Catholic "audience" to be built is that a Catholic "audience" dosn't fit Catholic theology. I may be overstating this, but it is liturgically incorrect to "perform" a song during Mass. This is NOT the case in Protestant worship. I have a friend and co-writer who leads music at a "non-denominational" church that does great contemporary music at all their services. The congregation is expected to sing along and raise their hands and all that with a lot of the songs, but there are also several points in the service where the band plays and a soloist or two sings a personal song (usually with a "me and God" personal relationship kind of theology in the lyric). And the congregation (who basically turn into an "audience"), get to hear the latest CCM hits each Sunday. Because we are so concerned with making sure that the congregation is involved in "full and active participation," singing everything, except maybe the cantor's part on the psalm and the Gospel Acclamation, there is no regular opportunity for Catholics in the pews to hear the latest well-written Catholic song. I lead a contemporary music ensemble each week at my parish, and would love to do Sean Clive's major award winning song "Amazed" at some point during a liturgy, but I can't because it's not a liturgical song (mostly because it's written in the first person, and is meant to be sung by a solo performer).
Priests, youth ministers, and other church leaders who might make decisions to have concerts with Catholic artists usually decide against it because 1) they don't know who the artists are and 2) the young people who we hope would come don't know the artists either. They'll bring in David Haas or Marty Haugen because people are familiar with their names from the small print in the hymnals and will come. But I can't go to my pastor and say, we should bring in Sean Clive, who wrote and sings that great song "Amazed" that our group has done at Mass six times in the past four months and everyone seems to like, because, again, I can't play it at Mass.
As much as I value the Eucharist and will never abandon it, I fear that we Catholics may never be able to have major label success or well-known touring artists ro any of things you all have been discussing that I also yearn for, all because of our theology of liturgical music. And that is something we lay folk can't change. :-(
Sorry to be such a wet blanket today. I hope someone can add some optimism to aleviate my frustrations.
Nick,
Thanks for joining in on the discussions! No worries about being a wet blanket, buthere's a few things to think about:
Yes, the theology of liturgical music means that music ministers are never to be seen as performers, but there are plenty of songs written by catholic artists (and even some who are not catholic) that are appropriate for liturgy.
Besides that, contemporary catholic music can be used very powerfully on retreats, during missions, at events--even during Eucharistic Adoration.
The main obstacle isn't theology, it's part cultural (most catholics don't really come to the parish outside of mass time--because for most catholics faith is a matter of obligation and not relationship) and part marketing-related. Pastors and parishioners "don't know that they don't know" because we as Catholics are often very bad at promoting and marketing events.
I can't tell you how many times I've been a part of an event where the folks in charge just wanted to use cheesy clip art photocopied at an old copier on purple paper. The result looked terrible. When I suggested we try something a little more polished (which would cost like $85 to do well) it was as if I suggested we start eating babies.
If I'm on the fence about something, or if I just haven't been exposed to an upcoming event before, it is going to take something exceptional to break me out of my regular schedule to attend. If the promotional pieces and marketing collateral look shabby, then my assumption is the event will be of similar quality.
Why should I be bothered to atted an event that someone else couldn't be bothered to tell me about in an interesting way.
Here's an example. There is an evangelical youth organization that was putting on an event called Game Day--a weekend event for teens to help them idntifymore strongy with the gospel and thjen prepared them to share that gospel with others.
They sent out high quality (full color, professionally designed, die-cut, excellent paper stock) invitations asking youth ministers to come to a free informational event. That event took place at Dave & Buster's, a local restauraunt/gaming arcade and consisted of a catered brunch and then a two-hour long presentation where the folks from this ministry offered concrete strategies and actual resources to help youth ministers do their job. They also talked about Game Day and asked folks who were interested to come sign up.
Because of the quality of the whole experience, most of the attendees signed up for the event. This evangelical ministry had done events like this all across the Chicagoland area and, as a result, filled a stadium full of twns of thousands of teens.
If this was a Catholic event, we probably would have received a flyer made with Microsoft Publisher, mimeographed on cheap paper, and we would have been treated to donuts and coffee instead of a catered event with real applicable things for the attendees.
What I'm saying is that there is almost no comparison between how evangelicals promote their events and how we catholics do.
It's true that catholic oganizations don't often hve money to do those things, but that is partly because of a significant lack of intentional disciples in the Church who understand that tithing is a response to the generosity of God. It's also because we have a culture that reinforces the notion that it is okay to be sub-standard because, you know, we're just a ministry and we rely on "volunteers."
One thing I have noticed throughout Catholic circles is the knee-jerk assumption that evangelical praise & worship is "entertainment".
I don't know if that is simply because it is often more upbeat and dramatic but evangelicals don't regard it as entertainment when it takes place in a Sunday service - it is *worship*. And the art form of leading musical worship in an evangelical setting is understood to be *very different* from that of simply putting on a "concert".
That doesn't solve the liturgical dilemma for Catholics but its time we stopped attributing the shallowest of motives to our Christian brothers and sisters who are, often, seeking to foster a deep experience of worship.
@Sherry,
You should check out http://www.christmusic.org and http://liftedhigher.com
plenty of Catholic circles don't regard it as "entertainment". I do a podcast each week on SQPN.com called the Catholic Praise Cast dedicated to P&W music.
That's certainly, true, Sherry. (Although I have to assume you are speaking generally -- I haven't seen anything in this thread to suggest people commenting here think it's just "entertainment".)
I think it is a very fair point about the lack of a catholic audience. Why do people get drawn to a song? It seems to me, the two meaningful ways is if (1) the music itself is powerful and grabs you or (2) you identify with the lyric. The first requires musicality (and that's been spoken about already). The second requires not just a good lyric, but the person listening to it to find it corresponds to them. And if that person is not an intentional disciple, a song that's expressly about the Eucharist or the Pope or something explicitly Catholic, probably isn't going to be it. (It could be the break-through, of course, but probably not.) They need to be able to recognize in the song something that speaks to their own life and experience. This is why, I think, songs that generally express angst, longing, searching, etc, are seen as appealing, but if it identifies that that longing is for Jesus, interest might plummet.
All that to say, it's a bit of a chicken and egg. The fostering of intentional discipleship will likely increase the interest in this genre of music, just as the music's existence could be of help to fostering intentional discipleship.
Jack and George:
I obviously don't hear this from enthusiastic Catholic musicians. I do hear it from run-of-the-mill pastors and parish leaders with whom I spend my time. And they need not be traditionalist at all to talk like this.
It seems to be part of a common knee-jerk defensive reaction to the the millions of Catholics who have left for the evangelical world. It's all too easy to dismiss such lapsed as spiritually shallow who just are blind to the riches of Catholicism and have been ensnared by the flashy and superficial.
Much easier than saying, you know, they might be thirsting for something real, some genuine spiritual need that evangelicals address and we aren't.
Kyle here from a Catholic-Acoustic-Humor-Rock band called Popple (www.popple.us).
I am not sure I want to see Catholic "Celebrity" musicians. That just seems like a big burden to place on someone and extreme fame can be difficult.
I think we have many musicians operating on a local, or regional, and sometimes national level and yet, they still are fairly anonymous. And I think this might be a good thing for their personal, spiritual health.
Maybe God is blessing the Catholic Church with a lack of mainstream-musical success.
(Just trying to play the other side for a moment - - see where that goes)
Hi all, by way of introduction, my name is Matt and I'm a member of News At Eleven, a Catholic band out of San Jose, CA (http://www.newsateleven.com).
Susan, thanks for passing the link along! Great discussion here with LOTS of great points all around. And hello to so many of my fellow Catholic artists on this thread -- I'm gratified to see so many people attracted to this discussion and engaged in what is really a common mission for all of us.
I share Nick Cardellino's observation about the kinds of music that are appropriate in the context of some protestant worship services vs. what is appropriate at Mass. Also, in protestant circles, there's much more of an opening for musicians to be worship leaders (sure, some become "celebrities") than in Catholic circles -- the Mass simply is NOT about the musicians. We have our role to play, but the sacrifice on the altar is the focus of the service and the thing we are there to support. Like Nick, I have no problem with that.
That said, what frustrates me (and him, from what I gather) is that getting Catholics interested in listening to "Christian" music outside of what they hear at Mass -- or to be EXCITED! about it, whether at Mass or not -- is incredibly tough. The culture of listening to Christian music in the Catholic Church is simply not what it is in a lot of protestant churches.
Still, you keep trying. Outside of News At Eleven, my wife and I are the directors of the 6 PM Mass music group at our parish. Once a year we hold a praise & worship music service on a Friday night during Lent. We consider the evening a success (sadly!) when a few dozen people show up. They're "respectfully polite" and trying to get them on their feet, clapping & singing along is a huge challenge -- but afterwards they tell us they enjoyed the music, so we've hopefully managed to reach them in some small way.
And yes, we always manage to slip at least one of our original, non-liturgical songs in there!
Peace!
Matt
News At Eleven
http://www.newsateleven.com/
http://www.myspace.com/newsatelevenband/
iTunes: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewArtist?id=4226005
You are not going to get people who have worship = liturgy in their bones to stand up and clap spontaneously like evangelicals. It's like asking them to pray spontaneously and out loud!
I'm wondering though - there is a movement of Adoration and P & W for youth and young adults around the country.
What about 40 hours of Adoration that incorporated large portions of P & W? Along with candles, icons, prayer teams, intercessors, hospitality folks and planned follow-up - not as a "concert" but as an evangelistic/Lenten or Advent event?
You can't fight that deeply imbedded liturgical instinct - you've got to build upon it.
Keith-
Thank you for your kind words. I've been a huge proponent of excellence in production of music within our community for a long time, but I've changed my hard stance on it over the years for many reasons:
Analyzing, promoting, and modeling the Catholic music industry against the "Christian" music industry may be the first, and biggest, mistake that many artists (and in fact the whole "indie-stry" [I love it!]) make.
The CCM market arose as a bit of anomaly, in that for the first time a genre of music was defined by the worldview it promoted lyrically, rather than the style or purpose of its musical form. The Christian community was (and still is) looking for songs that talked about the "Christian experience" of salvation through Jesus. It was a point on the history of the church where there was a huge movement toward obsession with God's love (and God's nature as Love) and naturally there was a demand for some "love songs". Beginning with the "Jesus Freak" movement and on to the current multi-billion dollar industry, the CCM market has presented an extremely watered-down representation of the Christian worldview, mainly because appealing to every denomination means resisting any topic that offends anyone. Thus, "God is Love" and "Jesus is my Savior" and the like are still the overwhelming theme of all mainstream Christian music. There have been some deviations from this norm, but overall, it's the way it's gone. Of course, this isn't just because topics are taboo. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, songs are generally more about relationships than institutions. Aside from songs meant for worship or education, songs about the Sacraments (or other particularly Catholic topics) aren't just difficult to write, they're difficult to listen to. The Sacraments are purposely outside our normal human experience- that's what makes them sacred. As such, they don't have a tendency to connect with us outside of a sacramental experience.
Back to the Catholic community modeling after the evangelical one, I think it's problematic. I would much rather see the Catholic community supporting artists from within the faith family, whatever their form. Whether or not a song is about something specifically Catholic (like the Communion of Saints), we should be seeking out those among us with true talent in all areas of creating beauty through art and promoting our butts off for them. The only way for the Gospel values to infiltrate our society (as much as many would love to convince you that we're in a "Christian" nation) is for those who hold those values to be creating art so beautiful and moving that it must be paid attention to. By separating ourselves from the "real world" we create a community of art that's 1) out of touch with what's really going on in the world and 2) aimed at a lower standard. The second point there has especially attacked the Catholic music-making community. Since Catholics are so used to having subpar production, songwriting, performance, and musicianship, you end up with a hundred "bands" that can't communicate musically, a hundred artists that can't communicate lyrically, and a hudred performances that can't compete visually, audibly, or emotionally with what's out there in the "secular" mainstream. This is because to compete in that market you have to be great, and to compete in ours you don't even have to be that good. It's a sad truth, but it's a truth nonetheless.
The Catholic music community seems to be stuck in the a state of "indie" quality, which hopefully will still change. There is absolutely nothing wrong with there being a gradient of talent and production value from the folks that just got their first guitar to the major label touring artists, and everyone in between. The problem seems to be that there's no real direction to go from just past "first guitar". There are publishers that are extremely talented at creating and promoting printed music, but have no clue what to do with non-liturgical recordings. There are artists across the board that believe for some reason that they should be making a comfortable living making music by performing 3 times a month and recording a new CD every 2 years. There are listeners out there who have become comfortable with Catholic music having a certain level of unprofessionalism attached to it, and being thrilled when something even approaches the mainstream indie level.
"Real" bands hit the road 300 nights a year for 5 or 10 years before they reach the level of success that many artists believe that they're entitled to just because they've played the main stage at a national or regional conference. There's a real lack of devotion to the craft that's moved from an annoyance to a real problem just recently, because it's starting to define the whole community. As one commentor noticed earlier, you can hear a Catholic recording out of a stack of others. At once this is encouraging (because there's an implicit awareness that there IS Catholic music out there in this statement) and terrifying (because when announcing oneself as a musician who plays the Catholic circuit, you will immediately be associated with all things negative that exist within the known stereotype).
There are more reasons why the community has remained stuck in the state that it's in beside the amount of work most artists are willing to put into developing themselves as artists, but it's definitely (in my very humble opinion) the most prevalant one.
In the world that we're living in, marketing would be a small worry if the art was great. In my opinion, there are a few "levels" that in the normal music scene that bands can aspire to:
1) Garage band - we play at our parents house and hope the neighbors don't hate us
2) Local band - we play at the coffehouses and bars in town and people like us because they know us
3) Regional band - we play around the area and people come to our shows because we're great on stage and they like our music
4) Larger regional (indie) band - we play almost every night within 300 miles of home (with occasional trips out). People talk about us to their friends, and bring them to our shows when we're in town. We JUST recorded our first decent quality studio record and are shopping it to some indie labels and sending it to the majors with our fingers crossed. It has 10 great songs, with at least 3 that can compete on college radio.
5) Nationally touring indie band - We play less shows than we did last year, but they're in front of bigger crowds at more established venues all over the country. We just started eating something other than ham sandwiches on the road. We have sold 30,000 copies of our independently released album, about 1/4 through the internet, the rest we handed to our fans from our merch table at shows.
6a) Major label band - We're signed by a "major". We took a year off the road to meet and greet DJs from radio stations all over the country. We have a new photo shoot for promotional materials about every 2 months. We're in great shape, and can play any song you want us to by hearing the changes a couple of times. Our live performance is not just a series of songs, it's an experience. Our CD cost about $200,000 to produce, and we met with the best writers in the industry to make our songs better. Our label is paying our TEAM of individuals to make sure our CDs are placed in the best places in Walmarts, Best Buys, Borders, etc. all over the country. We have a few people that all they do is hammer message boards and MySpace profiles with comments about our band that are well-thought-out and appropriate, not spammy (see the comment above for an example of the latter). We owe our record label about half a million dollars, which will be recouped (we hope) in sales of our new record. We're back to playing 300 times a year like we did a few years ago.
6b) Nationally touring, don't-need-no-stinkin'-label band
We're in the best possible place. We sell 500,000 copies of our record through independent distribution and make a good chunk of change off of each sale, since we financed the $200,000 record with the money we saved by sleeping 3 to a bed in hotels last year. We can draw 1,000 people even in smaller markets on any night of the week, and the major labels would give their firstborn to sign us, but we don't need them. We take about a month off the road every 7 or 8 months of extensive touring. We haven't missed a single note at a performance in over a year. We can play a flawless show if our monitors stop working. No one notices if our lead guitarist breaks a string. On any given trip to the mall, you'll probably see 1 or 2 people wearing a t-shirt with our name on it. We kick monster butt.
I don't think that anyone in the Catholic market (except for Ceili Rain, probably) has reached much past level 2. Most of us would struggle for consistent gigs in our hometown if we weren't playing churches all over the country. Many of our CDs wouldn't pass as a good demo to a venue owner that's used to the "real" music scene. This is a problem.
This comment box is so small I'm having a hard time staying in a straight line, so I think I'll submit this one, read it normally, and start on my next one. Maybe this time in Word...
Before I start on another long rant, a small comment:
I think that there's too much push on marketing, be it with websites, print materials, etc. The first and foremost issue should be on musicianship and creating great songs. If you can't afford to advertise in print media, you shouldn't. It's a waste of money to market a sub-par product. Also, advertising in national print media seems wasteful if your product is not nationally distributed. Really distributed, not just in Catholic/Christian bookstores.
Advertising in old media should be (I think) limited to local avenues (newspaper, news, etc) or areas that you're touring a LOT in a short period of time.
If an artist really wants to know where they are in relationship to the rest of the world artistically, they should try submitting their press kit (you do have one of those, right?) to local, regional, and national venues and see what comes back. It may be surprising, and probably discouraging, but it should also be challenging.
Keith, tried to post once before but had disappearing comment syndrome...
Thanks for asking about the festival. It's the CrossRoads Catholic Music Festival in Steelville, MO. You can check it out at crossroadsfestival.com.
Our original marketing plan was working primarily through youth ministries. It simply made sense that youth ministers could deliver dozens of kids where a family would bring only a few. St. Louis has a large and developed network and the archdiocesan office is very supportive. The only trouble is that as a strategy it didn't work well. We did direct mail, email, direct calling, sent personal letters, registration packages and sampler CDs. We got an enthusiastic response from a minority, and essentially ignored by the rest.
This year I did dozens of follow up calls to all the YMs who didn't bring their group to ask why. Responses ranged from the calendar was too full, the kids didn't seem that interested, it was [fill in the blank] week at our parish, school or college. The YM at the biggest youth ministry in town told me he always takes that week off. Mind you, he has a staff and extensive core team who could easily handle the trip without him.
What we're offering is a total package of day-long contemporary music [the best we can get], Masses, confession, adoration, dynamic priests AND FOOD for the whole weekend for $35 a person. This includes camping, cabins are extra. I don't know any group who can't do this without a fund raiser.
I think there are reasons that go beyond marketing and musical taste or production values. I think we're bucking our recent history here. We're several generations away from the immigrant experience now and Catholics as a group have struggled to escape the Catholic ghetto and move into the mainstream. It's been going on for 60 years, maybe 100. Part of this has been dismantling the communal Catholic identity. Culturally, it is hard now to tell a Catholic from anyone else. What we're asking people to do, even though we are barely conscious of it, is to do a u-turn and embrace an identity as a Catholic that goes beyond attendance and adherence but permeates their world and their life. When that happens, the notion of "Catholic music" may appear a bit less foreign and perhaps attractive.
Ryan,
Wow! Thank you for your incredibly thoughtful post. We are very much in agreement about many, many things.
To be clear, my push isn't for Catholic artists to become like the rest of the CCM artists because of a theology or even a cultural approach to music. Rather, my original point is that we should strive for the artistic quality that is present in CCM.
This is by far the best quote from your post, and one that I fully support (seeing as in my original post I talked about being hesitant to reinforce a label like "Christian" or "Catholic" before music:
The only way for the Gospel values to infiltrate our society (as much as many would love to convince you that we're in a "Christian" nation) is for those who hold those values to be creating art so beautiful and moving that it must be paid attention to.
Amen to that brother! This, I think, is where the catholic community needs the most help when it comes to offering support to Catholic artists.
There are just so many points in your post that I am finding myself nodding in agreement with. I also appreciate your insight into the difficulty of expressing a sacramental experience in music--that is, perhaps, the advantage of musical idioms like chant.
I also love your 6 level analysis of artist "types," as well as this analysis:
The Catholic music community seems to be stuck in the a state of "indie" quality, which hopefully will still change. There is absolutely nothing wrong with there being a gradient of talent and production value from the folks that just got their first guitar to the major label touring artists, and everyone in between. The problem seems to be that there's no real direction to go from just past "first guitar".
This is where I think catholic musician guilds and organizations (like CAM) could really come in handy...not just to support professional musicians, but to nurture and support those men and women who have just started to explore their musical calling. It should help with both musicianship, artistry, and spirituality.
Wouldn't it also be great if each diocese had a "department" of artistry--some kind of ongoing support that helps all of the different artists within the diocese grow in their faith and in their craft. If the Church is asking artists to take their calling seriously, the Church should follow through and do the same as well.
you wrote:
Since Catholics are so used to having subpar production, songwriting, performance, and musicianship, you end up with a hundred "bands" that can't communicate musically, a hundred artists that can't communicate lyrically, and a hudred performances that can't compete visually, audibly, or emotionally with what's out there in the "secular" mainstream. This is because to compete in that market you have to be great, and to compete in ours you don't even have to be that good. It's a sad truth, but it's a truth nonetheless.br/>
That is a truth, but it doesn't always have to be a truth. As a community of artists and a community of business men and women we can insist on higher quality artistry--but only if we take seriously the gifts and the call of artists and provide solid formation for these men and women at all levels of their development.
You know, one of the things I do is provide formation and retreats for lay men and women designed to help equip them for their mission in the world. I bet that if the folks who have participated in this thread put our heads together, we could really start providing that in an organized and comprehensive way. All of the gifts we need to do it are right here in this little virtual community.
So, why don't we? Why don't we get together "virtually" and start planning something like this--something that encompasses all areas and aspects of artistic and spiritual formation for musicians. The fact that so many folks here have pointed out the needs of this catholic recording artists means, perhaps, that there is something that God wants done.
So,, let's at least get together and start discerning.
Now I'm fired up!
Sorry...I mis-tagged the last half of my post. It should read:
you wrote:
Since Catholics are so used to having subpar production, songwriting, performance, and musicianship, you end up with a hundred "bands" that can't communicate musically, a hundred artists that can't communicate lyrically, and a hudred performances that can't compete visually, audibly, or emotionally with what's out there in the "secular" mainstream. This is because to compete in that market you have to be great, and to compete in ours you don't even have to be that good. It's a sad truth, but it's a truth nonetheless.
That is a truth, but it doesn't always have to be a truth. As a community of artists and a community of business men and women we can insist on higher quality artistry--but only if we take seriously the gifts and the call of artists and provide solid formation for these men and women at all levels of their development.
You know, one of the things I do is provide formation and retreats for lay men and women designed to help equip them for their mission in the world. I bet that if the folks who have participated in this thread put our heads together, we could really start providing that in an organized and comprehensive way. All of the gifts we need to do it are right here in this little virtual community.
So, why don't we? Why don't we get together "virtually" and start planning something like this--something that encompasses all areas and aspects of artistic and spiritual formation for musicians. The fact that so many folks here have pointed out the needs of this catholic recording artists means, perhaps, that there is something that God wants done.
So,, let's at least get together and start discerning.
Now I'm fired up!
Ryan,
I agree with you about the central docus of the artist should be quality of artistry and product. While it is important for an artist, particularly a new one, to know how to promote themselves, I think the burden of marketing should fall to other folks with the gifts and experience to do just that.
Thanks again for your great contribution to this thread!
Sherry,
You wrote:
What about 40 hours of Adoration that incorporated large portions of P & W? Along with candles, icons, prayer teams, intercessors, hospitality folks and planned follow-up - not as a "concert" but as an evangelistic/Lenten or Advent event?
You can't fight that deeply imbedded liturgical instinct - you've got to build upon it.
This is exactly what we did at my last parish, starting with the youth. Two years after we revamped the youth retreats, we started to include Eucharistic Adoration on the retreats. We used P&W music, singing to Jesus present in the Blessed Sacrament. We had time for silent reflection between songs, and I gently encouraged the teens to offer their thanks to God out loud during that time.
Something very powerful happens when we vocalize our praise of God. I think it forces us to let down our barriers, not worry about what others think of us, and helps to place us in right relationship with God.
I believe that's why the psalmist wrote that "the Lord inhabits the praises of Israel."
Those experiences at Adoration have, indeed, been the most profound and moving for myself and for the teens. While at first a little unsure, the teens eventually opened up, and now it's not uncommon to see teens lifting their hands in worship of God during Adoration, as their vocal, extemporaneous, and heartfelt prayers rise to heaven.
For the teens, it has been a singular point of encouter with Christ, incarnating what they have been learning and sharing on the retreat. There have also been a number of miraculous and supernatural events that occur during those times, as well.
Without a doubt, this experience of Adoration has transformed not just the teen program, but the whole parish!
Sherry,
You wrote:
What about 40 hours of Adoration that incorporated large portions of P & W? Along with candles, icons, prayer teams, intercessors, hospitality folks and planned follow-up - not as a "concert" but as an evangelistic/Lenten or Advent event?
You can't fight that deeply imbedded liturgical instinct - you've got to build upon it.
This is exactly what we did at my last parish, starting with the youth. Two years after we revamped the youth retreats, we started to include Eucharistic Adoration on the retreats. We used P&W music, singing to Jesus present in the Blessed Sacrament. We had time for silent reflection between songs, and I gently encouraged the teens to offer their thanks to God out loud during that time.
Something very powerful happens when we vocalize our praise of God. I think it forces us to let down our barriers, not worry about what others think of us, and helps to place us in right relationship with God.
I believe that's why the psalmist wrote that "the Lord inhabits the praises of Israel."
Those experiences at Adoration have, indeed, been the most profound and moving for myself and for the teens. While at first a little unsure, the teens eventually opened up, and now it's not uncommon to see teens lifting their hands in worship of God during Adoration, as their vocal, extemporaneous, and heartfelt prayers rise to heaven.
For the teens, it has been a singular point of encouter with Christ, incarnating what they have been learning and sharing on the retreat. There have also been a number of miraculous and supernatural events that occur during those times, as well.
Without a doubt, this experience of Adoration has transformed not just the teen program, but the whole parish!
Keith wrote:
So, why don't we? Why don't we get together "virtually" and start planning something like this--something that encompasses all areas and aspects of artistic and spiritual formation for musicians. The fact that so many folks here have pointed out the needs of this catholic recording artists means, perhaps, that there is something that God wants done.
So,, let's at least get together and start discerning.
This is what CAM is supposed to do. In the beginning, CAM had experienced and inexperienced artists, and John Michael Talbot was at the helm. But then many of the experienced artists left CAM. We need mentors.
How can we organize and do what you suggest? I'm all for it. The Church, however, does not support artistic development. This is why we are saddled with the poor quality of liturgical music that we now have.
Someone at CAM last year suggested that we artists put aside our own desires and needs and rally behind one or two people who are truly excellent at what they do and throw our total support behind them. I think this is a really good idea.
You must be exhausted keeping up with all of us! Thank for you hosting this discussion.
Also, with regards to music during adoration, Martin Doman has a program called Caelorum that he is actually previewing this weekend at a major men's conference in Boston. Martin has long been at the forefront of praise and worship music for Catholics and his ChristMusic website (christmusic.com) is dedicated to this.
Correct Christ Music link:
http://www.christmusic.org
Lar,
Anyone who lives within 200 miles of CrossRoads festival and doesn't go is just nuts.
It's the perfect example of Catholics not supporting the greatest thing going. There was a youth minister there, who has a HUGE youth ministry, and ZERO kids came with her. She was there, so Lar did his part. I still shake my head over that.
There is no better event. Close the doors, turn off the lights, call me a cab.
Larry,
Maybe if the festival were held in a less remote location? Get away from the camping aspect of it and try a spot closer to a major city? Is that doable?
Keith and Sherry,
While your suggestions are very good, unless those of us who are warriors can somehow motivate the rest of the community to work together as one to promote Catholic music, these things will never happen. And that's been the biggest problem we've faced. Even bigger than the fact that the Church in NO WAY nurtures, supports or takes seriously what we do. They have no clue how to use what we do or that they should even use it. You have these lone individuals out there who get it and try (I think fondly of a wonderful deacon in Millsboro, DE whom I've been blessed to work with) but unless more people get involved, it'll never happen.
I admit this discussion has me upset. I look at the tremendous amount of time and effort I put into this stuff and wonder if I'm crazy. But I know that we must be fools for Christ and in all likelihood, we won't see real results in our lifetime. But hopefully we are setting something up for the future.
God placed these desires in my heart and in the heart of others, there must be a purpose for it. All I can do is obey the call.
On what I hope is a more positive note, we are planning an event on Sat May 12th that incorporates several of the suggestions given so far. A converted monastery now called Our Lady of the Holy Spirit Center in Cincinnati, OH contacted us about wanting to put on a youth event to get a few more people without gray hair involved in what goes on at the center.
We certainly find it can be a challenge to motivate Catholic youth to come to a Christian/Catholic concert. So for this event Last Day has teamed up with a young Catholic speaker in our area who ministers to grade school and high school kids. And with Youth 2000 being presented regularly in our area and XLT recently, we know that there are many kids who have encountered Jesus at such events, so we decided we also wanted to incorporate Eucharistic Adoration. Now instead of a concert, we are putting on an event we are calling Rock Youth 2007. The evening will consist of some cool religious videos, talks on the Eucharist and other topics, Eucharistic adoration with praise and worship music, Benediction, food, and rocking out with Christian music.
Hopefully this will be a time for kids to encounter Jesus in a new way for some of them, and for others to continue to grow closer to Him.
Kathy
Manager Last Day
Keith:
So,, let's at least get together and start discerning.
Susan:
This is what CAM is supposed to do.
My first thought was, let's not reinvent the wheel. This is largely what CAM was intended for. CAM's wheel may have a flat, but I have no desire to got down that road of organization, association or membership. If, on the other hand, we're talking about an event: a summit, retreat, meeting of the minds...I'd be all for it. I agree that the discussion has been enlightening and the individual efforts have been wonderful, but much is lacking. Considering there is so much knowledge and holy desire reflected here, perhaps we should look for a way to continue the project.
Lar,
I'm definitely not talking about an association like CM, but a "summit, retreat, meeting of the minds." Some of it we may be able to do virtually.
What would be great is if we could get a cross-section of leadership, and move beyond association clan-ishness. I'm not looking to step on people's toes, but there is clearly great input to be had across the breadth of catholic musical artistry, and we should bring those voices together.
Even if what we end up with is identifying the components of a conprehensive artistic formation for musical artists--a formation framework, if you will--it will be a step in the right direction.
At the end of the day, we can't et too dismayed that the structures aren't in plave at the diocesan level o support catholic artists. God has given us all the gifts we need to form and raise up a new generation of catholic musical artists. If we begin the process, it could very well be the spark that our diocesan folks need to bring their resources to bear!
Susan wrote:
In the beginning, CAM had experienced and inexperienced artists, and John Michael Talbot was at the helm. But then many of the experienced artists left CAM. We need mentors.
I am a co-coordinator of a local songwriters group here in Dayton, OH. My former co-coordinator (who even though he stepped down, still comes to almost every meeting to share his wisdom and be a mentor to others) was running into this problem as well. The way he solved it, and was able to keep the more experienced songwriters in the group to keep coming has been to continually teach at a higher and higher level. Instead of lessons about really basic things like song structure or using a rhyme scheme in your song, Jim moved deeper to teach deep and difficult lessons on things like using phrasing to make certain lines stand out and establishing a vision for your song. We were concerned that the depth at which he covered these topics might scare away the newer songwriters. Would they feel like they were fifth graders in a doctorate level class. But we were surprised at what happened. By setting the bar ever higher, the newer writers seemed to be challenged in a very good way, and made quicker progress towards writing much better songs than I did when I first started in the group 10 years ago. And the more experienced writers not only stuck around because they were continuing to learn something new at every lesson Jim did, but also because they recognized that they were needed by the newer writers to help Jim answer their individual questions and mentor them.
The other successful strategy we have used over the years is to become tougher and tougher on song critiques. We tell new members that if they want people to stroke their egos, they should play their songs to their families and not come back. (Realistically, we do always start out critiques with positive comments, but...) The experienced writers stick around because they appreciate the continued challenging and honest critiques that we give each other.
I guess that challenging honesty is what I really appreciate about this discussion.
I have never been involved in CAM, so I can't comment on that organization specifically. But, I would be happy to get involved in an organization that will keep raising the bar and offer honest constructive criticism so that all of us Catholic musicians can, as a group, raise the overall level of quality. Then the youth ministers will use our music. Then the teens will think seriously about coming to a $35 Catholic camp-out concert event.
Thanks to all of you for your comments so far. Let's keep talking...
Nick Cardilino, you are a bastion of knowledge! Great post.
Nick brings up a most important point: HONEST CRITIQUE. This is seriously lacking in Catholic music. I do CD reviews in GrapeVine and I admit that in my reviews, I soft-soap it many times. In my effort to keep things positive, I may not say what I really think. My way of getting around projects I don't like is that I don't critique them. If a project is flawed but moves me, I critique it. But if it leaves me flat, I don't.
I wonder if your average Catholic artist is ready for a REAL critique. I'm taking a risk here being so open on such a public forum, but I have had to institute a policy at GrapeVine that basically says, "You submitted your CD for review, you accept your review. We will not argue back and forth with you." And I won't accept any CD for review until the artist has signed off on that agreement.
Why have I done this? Because frankly, some artists are just too thin skinned and I've gotten into unpleasant discussions with a few of them over reviews.
I think the whole “ministry’ thing gets in the way. The mentality often is that people think because they feel they are ‘called’ to ministry (and I’ve learned recently there are differences between a true call, and just desire) that their work is above criticism because it came “directly from God.” I believe that very little, if anything, comes DIRECTLY from God; rather it is filtered through our humanity and therefore needs to be worked with. I think that God intends for us to work with Him – He will give us opportunities, but it is up to us to make the best use of our gifts to live out these opportunities. I recall the gospel story about the servants and the talents and how each servant handled their talents, and the results.
You would need critics with credentials - people that are generally respected in the artist community as being knowledgeable and qualified to critique an artist's work. What would be the best way to find such people?
I personally think the time for talking has past. This is certainly not the first time these topics have come up. Every couple of years or so we have these heated discussions and everyone gets excited but nothing gets done. I wish we could instead set up something that we could put into action.
Ned Tonner and Gary Gersin had set up CM 24/7 (CM 24/7 is an internet radio station that plays Catholic music) with the idea of presenting music to a board, made up mostly of just regular folks, not people who have any vested interest in Catholic music other than they like to listen to the music, and they were supposed to pick and choose which artists would be played on CM 24/7. Did that ever take place? Or was the old Sacred Heart Radio just folded into CM 24/7? This seemed like a good place to begin for serious critique.
Another good thing that happened is that Bob Halloran, Jr. from Ceili Rain, who is one heck of an accomplished songwriter, came to the CAM conference 2 years ago and gave honest critiques of songs. He has real credibility and also truly cares about the artist community.
The discussion here has been fruitful. Can we now come up with a viable plan?
Susan,
Your discussion about wedding charisms to committed craft is something I touch on in my latest post, entitled "Excellence is not Optional." Do check it out if you have time.
Anyway, I was serious about holding a virtual convocation with folks in the catholic music sphere to begin discernment around some sort of comprehensive formation plan and initiative to help build a culture of excellence in catholic music.
If folks are interested, we can look at the ways to make such a convocation happen! Once it begins to take off, we could actually meet in person to discuss and deliberate, and pray--sort of model what we hope to build.
To be really successful, we'd have to invite folks rom a cross-section of the community and be clear this isn't associational.
Comments on that idea?
Keith
Susan,
Your discussion about wedding charisms to committed craft is something I touch on in my latest post, entitled "Excellence is not Optional." Do check it out if you have time.
Anyway, I was serious about holding a virtual convocation with folks in the catholic music sphere to begin discernment around some sort of comprehensive formation plan and initiative to help build a culture of excellence in catholic music.
If folks are interested, we can look at the ways to make such a convocation happen! Once it begins to take off, we could actually meet in person to discuss and deliberate, and pray--sort of model what we hope to build.
To be really successful, we'd have to invite folks rom a cross-section of the community and be clear this isn't associational.
Comments on that idea?
Keith
Count me in, and thank you. I'll check out that other post of yours as well.
A Catholic service-learning program, run by the Center for Ministry Development, that I work for in the summer called "Young Neighbors in Action" holds an "Adjunct Meeting" every 3 years that summons all involved on any level with YNIA to spend the weekend developing their particular role in the organization by gathering the experience, ideas, and suggestions of others from around the country. It's quite possibly the main reason (other than the strength of the full-time staff at CMD) that YNIA has grown to be more and more successful at teaching Catholic Social Teaching to young people in a real and relevant way every summer. I would think that a similar model would work wonders for the artistic community, but there are a few glaring difficulties:
1) Cost. CMD is able to budget in the costs of the meeting (read: LARGE costs) over 3 years worth of registration fees for YNIA. This allows all adjuncts to attend, travel and all, for nothing. In our case, there would be a large cost for the physical space as well as travel expenses for the meeting. There are many, like myself, that have had a hard time justifying any expense that doesn't have a fairly immediate return thanks to family obligations. This could possibly be offset somewhat by sponsors. Possibly from the diocesan or parish level, through grants, or from the publishers. Do we have anyone gifted in aquiring this type of funding? I'm thinking especially that there must be some sort of grant available for such an undertaking.
2) Time. I stay pretty booked most of the year, either with travel or local obligations when I'm off the road. We'd have to brainstorm an "off time" (since there are quite a few) that everyone could gather.
3) Location. There's nowhere in the country that's close enough for EVERYONE. It is possible, however, that a travel agent or someone of that sort would know an area of the country that is notoriously cheap to visit on one of those "off times" we arrive at.
4) Publicity. Making the event known in plenty of time for all artists to make arrangements, financial and otherwise, to attend would be difficult. I'd love to see representatives in every art form from every US diocese at an event like this. How would we let them know about it?
5) Format. Would we bring in keynote speakers, have roundtable discussions, small groups (maybe by art form), critiques, or a combination of all of these things? Do we have someone that could identify the needs of those most likely to attend and organize the structure of such an event? Do we have someone that could keep the event on track, since any discussion is bound to want to run into the next?
6) Do the right people care? Would heavy hitters like JMT, Bob Halligan Jr., Tom Tomaszek, Alec Harris, Tom Franzak, David Haas, Jim Caviezel, Mel Gibson, and other successful and experienced musicians, songwriters, painters, sculptors, actors, and directors be willing to participate in such an event. It seems foolish to create an event about pushing Catholic art to the next level without including those that have actually reached a new level. How can we make such a gathering attractive to those that really matter? Would our budget have to be so unsurmountably high that it would be impossible? Maybe.
7. The size of these comment boxes. It's a problem, really.
I don't mean to be the naysayer, but how do we go about making it work? I don't mean to downplay the grassroots movement in any way shape or form, but if the conversation is about allowing some to rise out of that movement, how do we make it happen? Who do we need to convince that it matters? Bishops? Businessmen? Artists?
I do wish there were a better format for this conversation than the comments on a blog post (not that it's not a great blog!)
I'm partial to a virtual meeting space like Second Life, but that's because I'm a geek. Is there a way we could plan (maybe a month in advance) a Saturday that we all meet virtually to hash some of this stuff out? I think that there's too much interest from too many capable people to not take this a step further into some real concrete stuff. Even if it's just a downloadable book (or printable through lulu) for artists to get their hands on with concrete ideas of how to push their art to a new level. Or an e-zine. Or something. I'd love to see something on the level of starpolish.com that was targeted at Catholic faithful becoming better at infusing their faith and their art. How can we get better at, when explaining a song about loss, sprinkling in our sense of hope? How can we get better at, when explaining a sculpture of the human form, sprinkling in our idea of human dignity?
I'd personally love to have some hard advise given to me about handling interviews on television or radio (ie. being interesting and not sounding or looking like an idiot). Or on developing more "moments" in a set for people to experience the heart of what you're getting at. I just listened to a live CD that Shaun Groves (an excellent semi-evangelical songwriter) just released and have about 3 pages of notes just from the first couple of listens. How can we become keener on noticing the effective means of delivery that great artists use without lifting their material?
And the most important question: Are there enough people that care enough about this stuff? It's a hard question to ask when your livelihood depends on the answer, but it's an absolutely essential one. Do enough people long for what the Church has to offer in terms of worldview, moral compass, and faith to be included in the art they consume?
This has been quite a rambly post, but I blame it on the box. I only have what I wrote about 10 lines prior to base my current thoughts on, haha!
Hi- John Flynn here. Thanks Susan for the link.
I don't get on these things much, just too busy. After reading everything, here's my quick thoughts-
1. Catholic Musicians spend way too much time on publicizing their music and way too little time on playing their music.
2. We need to be playing, playing, playing, getting in a van and travelling the country. We need to play anywhere and everywhere we can for whatever and whoever we can play for. Bottom line is people need to hear you and see you as an artist and if you are playing 5-10 shows a year it doesn't really matter how nice your website is. Also, playing live everynight makes you way better and tighter as a band. Think about it, how many Catholic musicians are playing 20 shows a year? 50? 150? 300? (And no fair counting the Mass you play at every Sunday...)
If you are a Catholic Musician- play, if you're not- invite a Catholic artist to your parish/school/office lunchroom/etc
I am completely thrilled with this conversation. Like Ryan, I want desperately for it to continue and progress.
Keith's ideas for getting a discernment process going is intriguing - I wonder if something like a Google or Yahoo group might serve as an interim measure to keep us connected while we consider what we might do to meet and hash out issues in a more direct, concrete fashion.
BTW, check out my post above - I'd love to hear any additional comments you all have.
Ryan,
Thanks for "getting practical" about our idea--it is very important to do so. You raise some good questions, which we should definitely address if we decide to move forward with our virtual conversation.
Second Life might be a good place to meet. We could also just start out in a chat room and have a moderated discussion, as well.
John,
I think that you are absolutely right about artists getting out there and playing--exposing the community to their music. As for marketing, I do think it is important, but if the catholic community had more organizations that could assist new and established artists with that discipline, I think we'd all be better off. Then artists could focus on areas where they have a charism!
Dave from Critical Mass. You can check out our music at www.myspace.com/CatholicRock or www.CatholicRock.com
Critical Mass has been going for a decade now. It is a part-time thing for me with a day job as a professor and with 9 kids. However, we are proudly indie, with over 12,000 CDs sold of our four albums. Our albums, not including our debut album, all cost close to $15,000-20,000 to complete. We were part of WYD 2002, playing for close to a million people, and have won Modern Rock Album honors from the UCMVA but we have also won awards from the evangelical Canadian Gospel Music Association. We perform about 15 times a year to audiences ranging from 100 to 1,000 people. I guess my main point in bringing this out is that it is possible to have a fun and successful career in Catholic music without necessarily hitting the road 24/7 and doing full-time marketing. The key for us has been to spend a lot of time working in our songwriting and not compromising on recording costs. Our ministry has impacted lives, based on emails we have received as well as postings on myspace and our website. I also strongly disagree that the answer in the Catholic market is creating record companies or labels. The internet is levelling the playing field.
I also have written a music column for the Catholic Register in Canada (www.Catholicregister.org) for over 10 years now. I have seen Catholic music grow from being a very poor cousin to the CCM scene to now being able to compete on several levels. If initiatives like Grapevine, Catholicjukebox etc continue to grow, and there are talented artists like CUC, Janelle, Righteous B, Critical Mass, Ceili Rain, etc, I think we will grow an audience and market. To some extent, I am a veteran of this market (not to the same extent as someone like Ceili Rain, Sal Solo or John Michael Talbot) but it has only been in the past 3 years that I have seen optimistic changes happening....
We have to be patient but I really believe we have finally turned the corner
Hmmmm, you all have me thinking... How many people would come if someone who is a great organizer like Susan organized a conference that featured some of those big names in Catholic artistry--or even if it were limited only to Catholic music? Tom Franzak, Tom Tomaszek, Bob Halligan, JMT, David Wang, David Smith, Joe Hand, Jesse Manibusan, etc. would be some people I would definitely make the time and spend the money to come to a conference to learn from. Time and money are precious to all of us, so a conference would really have to have this kind of a draw, I think.
As far as an on-line gathering, I might be willing to do that, but, in all honesty, it feels less personal, and I'm just less attracted to it, even though it would be free.
At the end of this month, I'm going to the Nashville Songwriters Association International's Spring Symposium. What attracts me to this, and why I'm willing to shell out money and take off time from work and from family time is precisely that I hope to learn from and network with people who are successful at getting music out the masses. I will also have the opportunity to get a song heard and critiqued by a publisher whose door I probably wouldn't ordinarily get through. I don't really care too much if he or she doesn't like my song. What's important is what I learn that helps me to grow as a writer. I think if there were a conference, I would go only if the heavy-hitters were there and were willing to challenge me to the next level of craft/artistry.
CAM already does this, to some extent. This year Tom Jackson and Joe Hand will be there.
The UCMVA already gathers all the heavy hitters under one roof when they have their Unity Awards. I wonder if they would consider doing something beyond that - have the Unity Awards, and then, while everyone is there, have a one day symposium? Make it a weekend?
I'll suggest it to Susie Gorell, the contact with the UCMVA.
Before this thread dies and we all go back home, I just wanted to ask:
What if we had access to an extremely large source of funding. What would the next steps be, and how much would it cost? Off the top of my head I'm thinking: renting office/studio facilities, marketing & support staff, artist salaries, producing A+++ albums for perhaps 6 artists to start, touring costs, publicity campaigns, sheet music publishing, etc etc.
If we could get this within an order of magnitude... $1M, $10M, $100M? I'm thinking $5M-$10M? If we then were able to sell 100K-200K CD's per year (5 artists, 20K-40K CD's per artist), and make $5 profit per CD, the budget could be $500K-$1M per year. I think this would be on the low side of "sustainable", correct?
Any thoughts?
-paul
How would we get such funding? Who would get it?
For grants, a particular organization would need to be a non-profit (ChristMusic is a non-profit). There is a book out there with a complete list of all the different Catholic foundations that offer grants. I went to a grant writing workshop and there is a TON of work that would need to be done to secure a grant. You'd need a committee to do it.
It seems to me since ChristMusic is already a non-profit, that your idea should start with them.
Susan,
I'm not so much concerned about the "how" of getting the funding, but the "how much" and "what do we do with it". And I'm not talking about a non-profit music company, but a real for-profit Catholic record label. If sufficient money were to be made available, do any of us know what we would do with it to develop a Catholic music company, i.e, what would the business model be?
-paul
Ah, I see where you're going now. Interesting thought . . . kind of like, what would I do if I won the lottery?
I would like to see a division in the record company that would develop artists, both musically and spiritually. Maybe it's not realistic, but that's what I'd like to see.
> Ah, I see where you're going
> now. Interesting thought . . .
> kind of like, what would I do if
> I won the lottery?
Exactly... win the lottery, inherit an estate, hit up a wealthy Catholic philanthropist for a few mil... that's what I'm talking about.
-paul
I feel certain that step 1 should be "hire a strong handful of industry veterans that know what they're doing".
solomon said there is nothing new under the sun. indeed that is true.and God has and will use protestants much more effectivley then catholics in music because they dont worry about dotting every i and crossing every t. they simply hear and obey. they know as jesus does that emotion is a legitamit part of our being just as reason is. after 30yrs in non denom stream i was used to gettinga hug from my brother warriors. ive yet to get much more then a hello at the catholic church ive been attending for three years. and a hug,well can you say homophobic. i mean this gelded catholic culture in the western church must grive the holy spirit. but slowly as the holy spirit blows through these dry bones times they are a chaging. may that change bring my catholic brothers and sisters into a new and lively woship. i for one would much prefer to run after the holy spirit then have my ones bleach in the wilderness of man mad tradition. Rock On, sincearly CoramDeo
If you wait for security and for funding, you might be waiting for a very long, long time.
Catholic music often is not a business, but a passion, a service and a form of evangelization.
Some of the most successful Catholic evangelization efforts often have not known where tomorrow's funding is coming from-- e.g. Mary Foundation (CatholiCity), also Mother Theresa's Missionaries of Charity.
If you look at Catholic music as a business, in this secular world there is little chance of popularity or of financial success. If you look at it as a mission, you have to take a leap of faith and see where it goes.
Many Catholic musicians are doing that, taking a leap of faith and doing the music in their spare time. Some of my friends are among them -- Oremus (www.oremusmusic.net). Pray for our Catholic musicians, and support them!
A graphic novel which explores the response of the Church to suffering in itself is available from: www.forbiddenplanet.co.uk
'The Least Among Us' is also previewed in the Announcements section of: www.all-creatures.org/fol
All best wishes,
Martin
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