The Question That Must Not Be Asked
In my early days as a Catholic, I was always asking the wrong question, and reducing cradle Catholics to incredulous silence. Many of my problem questions were related to a single over-riding concern: wasn’t the Catholic faith supposed to change people’s lives? Over time, I began to recognize the startled look that would cross a priest’s face when I would say things like, “I must be receiving the Eucharist improperly” or, “I must not be confessing properly. It’s supposed to change me, isn’t it? I don’t seem to be changing. I must be doing it wrong.”
When I started graduate school, the issues became more global. When I did a paper on RCIA , I made an appointment with the local diocesan director of RCIA. I wondered aloud: Did parishes keep in touch with those received at Easter and monitor their Christian growth? Did they follow-up when a new Catholic stopped coming? The director gave me “the look” and responded that it would be invasive of the spiritual privacy of the newly baptized to keep in touch.
When I asked the director of Catholic education in the same diocese if they attempted to evaluate what children actually “caught” of the faith when attending Catholic schools, she shook her head. They had exposed the children to a certain number of liturgies, classes, and a Catholic “atmosphere.” She make it clear that to ask what the children understood of the Catholic faith, much less believed when they graduated, was to make a heavy handed numbers game of a delicate spiritual “mystery.”
I finally pulled a real whopper. I naively blurted out “Was “Fr. X effective?” at a parish committee meeting. When the woman across the table from me erupted in rage at my presumption, I finally understood. I was violating another one of those deeply held Catholic norms that wasn’t in the catechism but all “real” Catholics instinctively know. Never ask if you are being effective, never ask if you are having the desired spiritual impact. I sat through the rest of that meeting in stunned silence, thinking “I will never, never, never ever be Catholic enough. I will never understand Catholics if I live to be 100.” The irony is that the priest in question was none other than Fr. Michael Sweeney with whom I eventually founded the Institute. It turned out that he was asking similar questions!
These days, I’m more sensitive to the feelings of cradle Catholics but I’m still asking the same question. At every Making Disciples seminar, we ask, “What percentage of your parishioners would you consider intentional disciples?” Since participants are pastors, parish staff and leaders from dioceses all over North America and elsewhere, this always produces vigorous discussion and fascinating responses. Usually we discover that no one present has ever thought about this particular question before and it takes some wrestling to become clear about what is being asked. What do we mean by the term “intentional disciple”? Is an intentional disciple the same as a “practicing Catholic”? How would you recognize someone as an intentional disciple?
And then the educated guesses begin: Five percent? Ten percent? The highest estimate so far came from members of a tiny parish with 350 members who estimated 30% of their members would qualify. The grimmest assessment came from a west coast-based group of leaders who together came up with a startling ballpark figure: that probably less than 1-2% of their parishioners were intentional disciples of Jesus Christ! They all worked at big, extremely active parishes. And yet, the fact that most members of their parishes were not yet disciples had escaped them until that moment.
Over the past 10 years, I have worked with hundreds of parishes in 70 dioceses and I can only think of a couple that I wouldn’t call busy. Most appear to be busy seven days a week. Every inch of available time and space is filled with people and programs and yet parish leaders seldom ask, "What is the real, personal and spiritual impact of our busyness? Are we changing the lives of people?” We energetically move people through institutions and programs but suddenly freeze when it is time to evaluate what is the actual spiritual impact of our efforts.
The Vatican announced a few days ago that twelve million new Catholics were added to the Church in 2004. That’s wonderful, but as Catechesis in Our Time puts it so powerfully, many baptized Catholics are “still without any explicit personal attachment to Jesus Christ; they only have the capacity to believe placed within them by Baptism and the presence of the Holy Spirit.”
You have read it in the Scribe before: Disciples and Apostles don't “just happen.” Vocations don’t “just happen.” Weeds happen.
Disciples, apostles, and vocations are the result of an intentional plan and effort of a Christian community. A community that knows that if you build people first, they will create and sustain our institutions. A community that dares to ask, “Are we doing what Christ commanded us to do? How can we help every baptized Catholic experience a life-changing encounter with Jesus Christ? Are we challenging our parishioners to become intentional disciples of Jesus Christ? Are we helping them to become well-formed apostles who are effectively discerning and answering God’s call?"

21 Comments:
One thing you don't seem to realize in the way you word your post is that you expect immediate change with each reception of Communion. True conversion takes a lifetime and often the changes are infinitesimal. I think your initial question points you in the wrong direction. Intentional discipleship is not about being in people's faces all the time, but by living out the Gospel in your own life and being an example to others, but in a quiet, persuasive way. You seem to advocate an aggressive, programmatic format, which is antithetical to many people and it's all predicated on your initial question.
Bingo! You just described why I left the Catholic Church. There was no instruction or encouragement in living a Christian life. Hope this doesn't offend, but it honestly was my experience
Hi Anonymous:
No - I don't expect immediate change. But I do hope to see something discernible over time - especially after 19 years as a seriously practicing Catholic!
A pace so slow and subtle as to be glacial would work fine if human beings had a million years or so to work with. Since most of us only live 70 or 80 years and we're supposed to have become holy by the time of our death, that does presuppose some kind of profound interior and exterior transformation that mere time-bound mortals like you and I can recognize as the Holy Spirit at work!
Because some of us started life "in a far country" and many of us started the journey late as adults, becoming holy by the end of our lives for would seem to demand, for some of us anyway, some pretty dramatic changes of direction.
I did experience a lot of significant change in my very vibrant non-sacramental pre-Catholic Christian life and naturally expected more as a Catholic.
But then, I was part of a communal Christian culture of discipleship that expected and fostered transformation, talked about it openly with each other, prayed for it together, yearned for it. taught it, rejoiced openly when it happened, comforted one another in the struggle, and provided a lot of companionship on the way.
In all my travels, I have seldom (not never!) encountered such a culture of discipleship in Catholic parishes.
Sherry,
I think it's great that you converted, but I don't really want that sort of Protestant kind of discipleship in our parishes. Catholics lives in a different sort of culture. If we wanted a different kind, we'd convert to a Protestant denomination. You expect vivid, dramatic change, which is a Protestant (rather evangelical Protestant) characteristic. Catholic culture is different. Change happens more by osmosis. What gives you the right to come in and demand that Catholics change their culture to suit you?
Anonymous,
Vivid, dramatic change is certainly not limited to Protestant denominations. In working with laypeople from teenagers to retirees, I see powerful dramatic change in the lives of men and women all of the time.
And we are not simply talking about emotionalism, but foundational, integrated conversion. Does it always happen that way? No? And even after those vivid moments, there are always quiet moments of conversion.
But what Sherry is talking about is approaching discipleship intentionally--nurturing, supporting, and forming lay catholics so that they can better integrate the graces of the sacraments, discern their own spiritual gifts, and discover their own personal role in God's plan of salvation.
Change can happen by osmosis, but that certainly doesn't mean that osmosis is the best way for change to happen.
Sherry is not advocating anything that the Bishops themselves have not called for. In their pastoral letter, Our Hearts Were Burning Within Us, they write:
"We seek to form parishes that are vitally alive in faith. These communities will provide a parish climate and an array of activities and resources designed to help adults more fully understand and live their faith.
We seek to form adults who actively cultivate a lively baptismal and eucharistic spirituality with a powerful sense of mission and apostolate. Nourished by word, sacrament, and communal life, they will witness and share the Gospel in their homes, neighborhoods, places of work, and centers of culture." (17)
They propose that this is done with a:
"Strong, complete, and systematic catechesis for all its members. By "complete and systematic" we mean a catechesis that nurtures a profound, lifelong conversion of the whole person and sets forth a comprehensive, contemporary synthesis of the faith, as presented in the Catechism of the Catholic Church." (4)
It is clear from magisterial documents, apostolic exhortations, and the statements of bishops themselves that we, as catholics, must be explicit about our formation, helping others to nurture their relationship with God and prepare them for mission.
In this sense, our protestant brothers and sisters have much to teach us. We are not appropriating something "protestant" from them. They have managed to keep alive something foundationally catholic for us--the necessity of formation.
No one, least of all Sherry, is proposing anything that does not respect the individual.
In Christ,
Keith
Of course, conversion to Christ requires dramatic change in one's life. But this call to march every Catholic "out there" neglects one important facet of Catholic culture and that is the "little way" of many of our saints. They certainly had a personal attachment to Jesus Christ, yet one could also say that they didn't have a "plan." Or one could say that their plan was exhibited in their personal lives, often unheralded, yet many times remembered.
One thing Sherry does not mention specifically is the important Catholic concept that this personal attachment to Jesus Christ is mediated through the Church. Part of this is due to the book she quotes, yet Catholics cannot separate Christ and the Church. Look at any sentence in St. Augustine, for example. In Catholicism, unlike Protestantism, one does not sustain "institutions," one participates in the life of the Church.
Awesome, Sherry. I laughed my way through your post. Boy can I relate! As a convert, I can't tell you how many times I've been given "the look" for such a radical thing as talking freely about Jesus by name, or the shocking act of making a suggestion to a pastor that he do something differently so he might, you know, actually improve his ministry to people.
Stick to your guns - there's a reason why God is calling all us Evangelicals into the Catholic Church. It needs help! In this respect, it is like a dysfunctional family that thinks its dysfunction is normal because it doesn't know anything else. Catholics, in my opinion, need to get over their knee-jerk reaction to all things Protestant, because not everything Protestant is bad. A lot of it is good. Like, you know, being really committed to Jesus and things like that – what you call intentional discipleship. It's not either Jesus or the Church. It's Jesus and the Church, the Church because of Jesus, not Jesus because of the Church.
God bless you, Sherry. You rock.
I love this post Sherry! It is astonishing to me - the apparent disagreement of some to the idea of intentional discipleship.
Jesus seemed pretty intentional with the 12. The Catechumenate in my mind was in the early church the intentional process of making disciples - the institutionalization, if you will, of the teaching method of Jesus. The RCIA properly understood and implemented certainly is intentional about the necessity of conversion and a process of conversion. The GDC says that the baptismal catechumenate is the model for all catechesis.
Change and understanding are the explicit aims of catechesis.(see
On Catechesis in Our TIme, 20). As a catechist, they are to be looked for and expected with an authentic proclamation of the Gospel and the teachings of Jesus.
I do think, often times, change is not looked for or expected, the Gospel is not proclaimed, and the authentic teachings of Jesus are not taught in all their "rigor and vigor" - therefore, the possibility of getting intentional disciples is put at risk (see CT 30-31).
Perhaps it has been put at risk for so long, that the very idea of making disciples, has been let go as a Catholic idea to many Catholics. I hope this is not the case. Abandoning the explicit words of Jesus in Matthew 28 seems very un-Catholic.
Laslty, I have a question - Where is this catholic culture which is apparently supposed to sweep away me and my children into the process of initial and on-going conversion through osmosis? THere are alot of things "in the air" in the culture where I live, the Gospel is usually not one of them. We are working hard in our home to get the Gospel in the air and to live and authentic Catholic life. However, my home, is not to be mistaken with the larger cultural context in which I live. I think most parents who are concerned about their own and their children's salvation are not leaving it up to the "Catholic culture" to make it happen. My daughters' lives are worth so much, I am not one to take that risk
SHerry thanks again for the post and your work. God bless
I love my parish. If I had to put it in one sentence I'd say I love it because it is very evangelical without being the teensiest bit Protestant. So it can be done!!!
I share the Catholic suspicion of enthusiasm, but the alternative to enthusiasm is not lukewarmness or apathy.
Our parents and grandparents from immigrant neighborhoods liveds in the old bubble of Catholic culture. It doesn't exist now. The culture we live in by default, if we are not evangelical, if we don't talk about Jesus all the time, if we don't create our own, will necessarily be the toxic secular one.
“What percentage of your parishioners would you consider intentional disciples?”
Actually, I simply couldn't tell you, because I barely know them! And that's part of the problem. It's hard to grow in holiness without the support of a real community. Most parishes just don't cut it, sorry to say. Which is why I'm a member of the Disciples of Jesus Community here in Australia.
It's not that the parishioners aren't good people - I'm sure most are and many are probably much better Christians than I am, but it's very hard to get to know people in the Catholic Church. Part of the problem is that our society in general is now so far removed from more traditional values, essentially based on the Gospel, that these days, if we want our children to keep their faith, we have to be intentional about it. We have to be intentional about everything, pretty much.
As for change, I can certainly say I'm a better person now than when I had my renewal of faith over 20 years ago. And that has been a slow but steady growth in holiness via the Sacraments, prayer etc.
Sherry, I am currently listening to your Called and Gifted workshops on CD. Thanks very much to you and Fr Michael for your hard work on all this. Looking forward to finding my charism/s!
Louise (in Australia)
(I came here via Mark Shea)
True conversion takes a lifetime and often the changes are infinitesimal. I think your initial question points you in the wrong direction. Intentional discipleship is not about being in people's faces all the time, but by living out the Gospel in your own life and being an example to others, but in a quiet, persuasive way. You seem to advocate an aggressive, programmatic format, which is antithetical to many people and it's all predicated on your initial question.
Are you kidding me? So we should just keep our heads down, keep quiet, and expect the world to change?
Let me be another voice of support, Sherry, and crew. An intentional disciple makes many small changes, yes, but can make daily dramatic changes as well. We need to be a light on the hill, the salt of the earth!
I'm glad Jesus, St Francis, Pope John Paul II and Fr Mike Scanlan didn't follow this person's way of thinking.
Keep up the good work. You guys recently went to my home parish in lansing, MI. I am thrilled and pray for them all the time. (I'm in another state, now)
Sherry
Way to Go!!! I couldn't agree more!!! Why is it that Catholics just don't "get it" I am a cradle Catholic, so I have some experience with the so call Catholic Culture. For the last year or so I have taken an ongoing pole of fellow Catholics, asking them 3 things. #1 What is the difference between the terms "Disciple" and "Apostle".? #2 What is your Special Gift from the Holy Spirit? #3 What is God’s Plan for your life? I am still waiting for 1 right answer or at least a clue as to what I’m talking about.
Pope John Paul II constantly spoke of our “Call to Holiness” through the Power and Glory of the Holy Spirit. As I make my Sunday morning rounds of the Protestant “TV Evangelists”, I have no problem finding many different interpretations on any of the above mentioned topics. In Pope Benedict’s XVI 1st Encyclical on Christian Love talks though out about the “Call to Holiness” and the “Action” of spreading the Good News.
In 1Jo 3:18 My children, our love should not be just words and talk; it must be true love, which shows itself in action. Why is this so difficult for Catholics to grasp? It’s time for the Catholic “Culture” to realize the Holy Spirit is pouring out His Gifts ABUNDANTLY for all. The time for keeping quiet is over. “Rejoice and be Glad”
Hi Anonymous:
Welcome to ID! The vast majority of the 24,000 Catholics who have gone through live Called & Gifteds could make a stab at answering your questions because those are all things we cover in the workshop.
Anyway, we're glad you found us and hope that you will contribute to some of other discussions. We'd love to know who you are, so how about adding your name next time you post.
We want ID to be a supportive place for lay disciples and apostles where everyone is significant and known by name.
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It's kind of funny that the person writing here anonymously who is so concerned about being "not-Protestant" is actually acting very much like the Fundamental Baptists I grew up with. None of them seemed to realize that Fundamentalism in America was a cultural phenomenon unique to this country and to the 20th century. "Not-Protestant" seems to be unaware that the Catholic culture she hold onto is unique to this country and to the 19th and 20th centuries. Patrick of Ireland was "aggressive" in his discipleship. So were Ulfilas, Francis of Assisi, Augustine of Hippo, etc. In the 20th century, Blessed Pier Giorgio Frassati was unafraid to confront people with the claims of Christ. And there are countless more examples throughout the entire history of the Church (ancient and modern). Thanks be to God for faithful Catholics unafraid to make Jesus Christ a personal issue!
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